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New buyers put off by £20 million hole in accounts

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Grumpy Old Man said:
Sunderland has been factually debt-free (other than the short-term quasi-overdraft this time last year) from the moment the parachute payments left the club. At the point Donald bought it, it was only cosmetically debt-free. The debt free thing had to have started with Short - he was the one who was able to move it off the Sunderland balance sheet. I think most people agree that Donald would have been better off having that debt left in the club to be dealt with internally, but that's in the past now. Madrox wil have debts to FPP and also to one or more of its shareholders (mainly Donald in the form of SJD Leisure Holdings, which has his shares in Madrox). It's impossible to know precisely what's happening until I've seen the accounts of all four companies (SAFC, Sunderland, Madrox and SJD). You really can't get the full picture looking at only one of the four in isolation.


Apology given. But if you're gong to have a user name and standpoint that renders you easily confused with Chris Weatherspoon that's going to happen.
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So if they both had the same stance then they were both correct..... wonder if Chris gets anyone apologising? 🤔
 
Ericsgate said:
Why should the government get involved? If and when the world gets back to anything near normality, there are going to be a lot more deserving businesses than football clubs, many of which have been badly run for decades (That sadly must be the one league we would be top of.)
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I was not suggesting that the government would provide finance per se.

I’m just imagining a scenario, say that 30 clubs file for administration due to insolvency. They cannot all be deducted points and relegated. Relegated to what? There might not be a league system to support it.

Government intervention may be along the lines of relaxing insolvency laws or perhaps providing bridging loans stipulations on reducing longer term cost structures. In the end football is a fundamental part of British society there might be political interest in preserving it?

Free market capitalism as we knew it is temporarily broken as we knew it. I personally think that temporary is a number of years as I do not see this as a V shaped recession.
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British politicians have used football as a vote winner, panacea and soft diplomacy for years. I can see a major restructuring coming and it may take govt to bang a few heads together. Hopefully along fan owned 49+1 Phoenix lines with part regionalisation.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Ellis is owed nothing. We know that because the charges he had over Sunderland were lifted last April. We also know that SBC are owed nothing, because they lifted their charges over Short's assets at the same time. The simple fact is that, entirely in accordance with the terms of the contract, £25m of the 2018/19 parachute payment was paid from SAFC to Drumaville, with the money going via Madrox (which created this balance in the first place), to clear the final part of the SBC loan to Sunderland, which Short had moved into Drumaville. To that extent, it can be argued that this payment was using club money to pay off a club debt (even though it had been moved off balance sheet). All of the problems arise from the need (because the contract including this was between Drumaville and Madrox) for that £25m to go through Madrox on its way to Short. The original contract envisaged the parachute going direct to Drumaville, and never coming into the club, but that would have breached PL regulations (an inexcusable oversight by all parties to the deal, to be blunt). The argument for the write-off will undoubtedly be that it's just a correction of an accounting anomaly (I've flip-flopped so many times trying to work out whether it could be legally enforceable, and I'm still not sure) which is true at a technical level. But that's certainly not how it comes across to a layman,
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It's funny that so many people talk about GOM being pro-Donald.

This post is a factually accurate take on what happens and gets 0 likes.

Other posts on this thread containing factually wrong info about "Donald stole money from the club" and "Donald used the club's own money to buy the club", "Donald bought the club for 5m", "the club is worth £5" get multiple likes.

And GOM is the one with the agenda :lol:

Emotional, wrong one liners get people all fret up about evil owners and get likes. Rational takes on what happened get skimmed over and people don't learn from them
 
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SPUFF said:
All these separate entities GOM, its almost as if they’ve tried to make the situation illegible for anyone who doesnt ‘understand business’.
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Most definitely mate. Said this all along. A totally complexed way of buying the club and bamboozle a lot of ordinary working class fans who through no fault of their own don’t understand accountancy.
 
s1black2000 said:
"However, the accounts we have seen - which the club have delayed publishing"

why would a business delay publishing their accounts?
Doesn't that get a fine from companies house?
Any tax partners on here that can explain the possible reasons why?
dodgy as F in my eyes.
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There's a three month extension to the filing deadline allowed due to coronavirus. Nothing dodgy at all. Not all companies are doing it, but the impression my wife is getting via the tax forums she's a member of is that the vast majority are. By the way, accounts filing has nothing to do with tax. Corporation tax returns are to totally different deadlines, and are not a matter of public record, so any tax partner would be totally indifferent about this.
 
rocky said:
That argument is as pathetic as your zany persona
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You've all turned in to Fookin Mag forensic accountants, your job is to get pissed, clap ya hands and support the Fookin team....

If the Intellgencia want to run the show, stop Fookin whining and put ya Fookin consortium together....
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
I wonder if the final accounts may not look the same as the draft? Until there's been an AGM to approve them they can be changed.
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Does this mean IF these stories about the £20m are true, they could still hide this some way before the accounts come out?
Or will it show up somewhere else?
 
Flea Market Trader said:
I’m confused. You always give an opinion on money matters and I’m presuming you never saw those accounts either. What’s different this time. Let me guess you’ve been caught out as knowing nothing.
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Sorry mate but that’s a bit out of order. GOM has tried to clarify things on many occasions to fans on this forum who don’t understand accountancy. With regards to GOM posting on past accounts anyone can go on company house website for a few quid which is what he’s done to try and clarify a few things.
 
SVU said:
I’ll put my mortgage on them being told it’s a Madrox matter, not a club matter.
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That wouldn’t really be acceptable. Everyone knows Madrox in essence, is linked undeniably with the club, thus, matters massively.
I’m hopeful that the owners won’t be daft enough to give the fans even more suspicion and worry.
 
I think I’ve accidentally reported @Gibraltar Mackem on this thread! Is there an unreported button or somewhere I can find out if I have or haven’t? I brushed the button and it reset page, would reporting require me to do owt more than that?
 
Mirzam said:
The idea that people of the North East do not understand business is beyond laughable, a lot of us run our own businesses and deal with the myriad complexities of finance/tax etc on a daily basis, they are panicking because they are being laid bare as southern chancers who thought they could make a quick buck and it has blown up in their faces.
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Totally agree mate but a lot of people don’t in all areas of the country.
 
Nelly The Elephant said:
So if they both had the same stance then they were both correct..... wonder if Chris gets anyone apologising? 🤔
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Chris is agenda driven. He was very close to the Armstrong bid, and he won't miss a chance to have a swipe at the owners, whether it's justified or nor. He was totally wrong about the structure of the deal, and he's been wrong about a number of other things. I thought @KittenMittens was him; my goof. @KittenMittens and I fell out over what could or couldn't be done with the intergroup balance. Ir never occurred to me that they'd be stupid enough (or, if they were indeed pushed by FPP, desperate enough) to do it. It made no sense to me then, and it makes no more sense to me now.
riffraff said:
I think I’ve accidentally reported @Gibraltar Mackem on this thread! Is there an unreported button or somewhere I can find out if I have or haven’t? I brushed the button and it reset page, would reporting require me to do owt more than that?
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Wouldn't hurt to PM whichever mod is on.
 
Mary Hinge said:
You've all turned in to Fookin Mag forensic accountants, your job is to get pissed, clap ya hands and support the Fookin team....

If the Intellgencia want to run the show, stop Fookin whining and put ya Fookin consortium together....
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I don't normally agree with much you have to say Hairy Mary, but you're nailed on with that one.
 
Johnnyh said:
Most definitely mate. Said this all along. A totally complexed way of buying the club and bamboozle a lot of ordinary working class fans who through no fault of their own don’t understand accountancy.
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It's very simple and has any number of equivalents up and down the leagues.
Ghandi Floss said:
Does this mean IF these stories about the £20m are true, they could still hide this some way before the accounts come out?
Or will it show up somewhere else?
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They could simply look at the fallout and reverse the decision to write off the balance.
 
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