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Nelson to Dundee

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rubberface said:
...or maybe because 6 month left on contract and WANT to cash in? We haven't got a pot to piss in.
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Why do people keep saying shit like that , are you calling the owner a liar? He’s already come out and said there is plenty of money to back Ross on the players he wants. Somehow I don’t think selling a kid who didn’t make a 1st team game is going to bring in much money
 

You'd have to be monumentally thick or pushing an agenda to say the current set-up doesn't give youth a chance. It's literally the biggest influx of academy/youth players into the first team in three decades.

Nelson, despite the exquisite name, hasn't even had a sniff at a time when the club is focussed on investing in/profiting off youth. Maybe the current management don't rate him and if so, he's doing the right thing and leaving to play elsewhere.
 
pwsafc said:
Why do people keep saying shit like that , are you calling the owner a liar? He’s already come out and said there is plenty of money to back Ross on the players he wants. Somehow I don’t think selling a kid who didn’t make a 1st team game is going to bring in much money
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It's not rocket science marra.
 
The Rat said:
Sell on clauses are had to get like

Never understand people having ago at Bain for not getting one for Pickford. We sold him for 25 mill can’t have both

Probs do for Nelson mind
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The problem with that is the 25m is no longer in the club. We developed England's number and bar half a season worth of games, we've had absolutely nothing in return.
 
oldboy said:
The problem with that is the 25m is no longer in the club. We developed England's number and bar half a season worth of games, we've had absolutely nothing in return.
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The only way we are ever going to get back to the premier league is via sell on clauses and selling academy graduates. Similar model to Barnsley but obviously required on a bigger scale, which should be possible given the calibre of the academy. That 25 million as you said just got hoovered into plugging debt and that money is utterly immaterial now. If the previous regime had tied Maja up we could have sold him for say 5 million, and inserted sell on clause of 15% .... if as many on here predict he will be a good premier league striker then I dread to think what his value will be in 4 years time, young, English, striker .... then that money filters back in.
 
0321safc said:
The only way we are ever going to get back to the premier league is via sell on clauses and selling academy graduates. Similar model to Barnsley but obviously required on a bigger scale, which should be possible given the calibre of the academy. That 25 million as you said just got hoovered into plugging debt and that money is utterly immaterial now. If the previous regime had tied Maja up we could have sold him for say 5 million, and inserted sell on clause of 15% .... if as many on here predict he will be a good premier league striker then I dread to think what his value will be in 4 years time, young, English, striker .... then that money filters back in.
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Although I agree with you in part the aim has to be a rapid progression through the leagues, and personally I dont see following the "Barnsley model", no matter on the scale on which we do it as the best possible way of doing so.

Obviously in the position we find ourselves, bids from certain clubs will be hard to brush off. But selling a prized asset to the likes of Swansea for a nominal fee just because we could add a sell on clause, only for that player to not go on and get game time, there for not increasing in value, isnt beneficial to us at all.

For me we should be doing our upmost in keeping our category one trained youngsters at the club. Giving them plenty of minutes. Supplement with astutely scouted players. And build a squad that in a few years time will be premier league ready.

If you look at the likes of Southampton and bournmouth who rapidly accelerated through the leagues and slotted in seamlessly to the premier league, a high percentage of their key players had been with them since league one. This gave them the advantage over the perennial water treaders in the premier league of having a group who knew the system to a tee and knew each others game inside out.

Building a good league one side is good for an immediate return to the championship, but then what? My hope is that by the time we find ourselves back in the premier league the likes of embleton and mumba have a midfield partnership of 50+ games together. And we have a striker like Maja who will be in his early 20s with a shed load of football league goals already to his name.
 
Sydneymackem said:
Always hope these academy lads are going to make it but a lot don't.....Nelson is what 21 and been getting goals for Darlington, if it had been say Grimsby he might have been worth a try but the club obviously don't think so. Good Luck to him at Dundee.
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Aye, same age as Gabriel Jesus when you think about it..
 
pwsafc said:
Why do people keep saying shit like that , are you calling the owner a liar? He’s already come out and said there is plenty of money to back Ross on the players he wants. Somehow I don’t think selling a kid who didn’t make a 1st team game is going to bring in much money
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Did he? Genuinelly didn't know, then why were you @Billy Batts taking the piss out of me for saying we should spend 2 mill? :confused:

0321safc said:
The only way we are ever going to get back to the premier league is via sell on clauses and selling academy graduates. Similar model to Barnsley but obviously required on a bigger scale, which should be possible given the calibre of the academy. That 25 million as you said just got hoovered into plugging debt and that money is utterly immaterial now. If the previous regime had tied Maja up we could have sold him for say 5 million, and inserted sell on clause of 15% .... if as many on here predict he will be a good premier league striker then I dread to think what his value will be in 4 years time, young, English, striker .... then that money filters back in.
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Eh? Why?

We are bloody Sunderland, biggest team in this division and the biggest team in the championship if we get promoted

Why should that be the only way? We should be keeping hold of our best academy players.

We have took some hits the last few years, but it annoys me when people have a total lack of ambition like, never forget how big of a club we are.
 
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When I saw him play for the U23's he looked all effort and little skill. He's subsequently done well on loan but he's deemed not to be good enough by Ross and so it makes sense to get a fee for him. This is nothing about ambition just that Nelson isn't quite good enough for what we want. The majority of young players in every club in the land don't make it - its just a sad fact. I wish the lad well as he seems to have a good attitude but it seems to be clutching at straws to look at him as an answer for our lack of striking options.

oldboy said:
Although I agree with you in part the aim has to be a rapid progression through the leagues, and personally I dont see following the "Barnsley model", no matter on the scale on which we do it as the best possible way of doing so.

Obviously in the position we find ourselves, bids from certain clubs will be hard to brush off. But selling a prized asset to the likes of Swansea for a nominal fee just because we could add a sell on clause, only for that player to not go on and get game time, there for not increasing in value, isnt beneficial to us at all.

For me we should be doing our upmost in keeping our category one trained youngsters at the club. Giving them plenty of minutes. Supplement with astutely scouted players. And build a squad that in a few years time will be premier league ready.

If you look at the likes of Southampton and bournmouth who rapidly accelerated through the leagues and slotted in seamlessly to the premier league, a high percentage of their key players had been with them since league one. This gave them the advantage over the perennial water treaders in the premier league of having a group who knew the system to a tee and knew each others game inside out.

Building a good league one side is good for an immediate return to the championship, but then what? My hope is that by the time we find ourselves back in the premier league the likes of embleton and mumba have a midfield partnership of 50+ games together. And we have a striker like Maja who will be in his early 20s with a shed load of football league goals already to his name.
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We sold Asoro for £2 Million - hardly a nominal fee. Just at the moment £2M for Asoro looks a good fee.
 
10 Gary Rowells said:
When I saw him play for the U23's he looked all effort and little skill. He's subsequently done well on loan but he's deemed not to be good enough by Ross and so it makes sense to get a fee for him. This is nothing about ambition just that Nelson isn't quite good enough for what we want. The majority of young players in every club in the land don't make it - its just a sad fact. I wish the lad well as he seems to have a good attitude but it seems to be clutching at straws to look at him as an answer for our lack of striking options.


We sold Asoro for £2 Million - hardly a nominal fee. Just at the moment £2M for Asoro looks a good fee.
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Its fairly nominal like 2 mill.

I think it was too late for Nelson, but I do believe a lot of players from 18 to 21 just get completely lost, I really think if we started blooding players younger they would develop a lot quicker

Honeyman has done really well as he was so close to being released and just going non-league, put lads in and they will learn. Not all will make it long term but even say Honeyman now could go for a few mill, I bet Robson could have gone for cash if he'd had a full season with no injuries.

For me the way forward long term is to stop signing squad players like Wyke and Power etc, and have those positions filled by solid home grown lads, meaning we can spend more on fees and wages for some real quality. I think its the way forward, means in general we will be signing less players, as that carries risk, and we can focus on quality when we do want to

Not saying we could have done it this season as we needed bodies and good pros in.

A perfect example for me is next year I wouldn't keep James (Oviedo will pros leave so forget him) I'd try and sign a quality first choice left back and leave Hume as our back up. That kind of thinking, just an example mind.

In general we are just always signing far too many players, its like 10 plus every season, that has to stop
 
The Rat said:
Did he? Genuinelly didn't know, then why were you @Billy Batts taking the piss out of me for saying we should spend 2 mill? :confused:




Eh? Why?

We are bloody Sunderland, biggest team in this division and the biggest team in the championship if we get promoted

Why should that be the only way? We should be keeping hold of our best academy players.

We have took some hits the last few years, but it annoys me when people have a total lack of ambition like, never forget how big of a club we are.
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Yes I knew that, he mentioned it in the podcast. When he said there's money if Ross needs it, considering he's already come out and said he doesn't want many bodies in, just a striker, why do you automatically assume he means 2 to 3 million? Because I don't, more like 500k. 1 million absolute max.
Notice how you're conveniently missing off the 3 million part of your original posts now.
 
The Rat said:
Its fairly nominal like 2 mill.

I think it was too late for Nelson, but I do believe a lot of players from 18 to 21 just get completely lost, I really think if we started blooding players younger they would develop a lot quicker

Honeyman has done really well as he was so close to being released and just going non-league, put lads in and they will learn. Not all will make it long term but even say Honeyman now could go for a few mill, I bet Robson could have gone for cash if he'd had a full season with no injuries.

For me the way forward long term is to stop signing squad players like Wyke and Power etc, and have those positions filled by solid home grown lads, meaning we can spend more on fees and wages for some real quality. I think its the way forward, means in general we will be signing less players, as that carries risk, and we can focus on quality when we do want to

Not saying we could have done it this season as we needed bodies and good pros in.

A perfect example for me is next year I wouldn't keep James (Oviedo will pros leave so forget him) I'd try and sign a quality first choice left back and leave Hume as our back up. That kind of thinking, just an example mind.
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Totally agree. It was interesting that Roker Report was saying we tried to get a 17 year old Romanian kid in. You have to remember that the owners have barely been in 6 months. I'm sure their plan is as you suggest and big Stew said in a recent podcast that he would be changing how the contracts would be done for youngsters to avoid the Maja situation. I think the owners would agree with you but its a balance. If we hadn't bought someone of the squad players and put in 5 or 6 youngsters in their place and were currently 10th or 12th I don't think anyone would be too pleased.
 
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