McCarthy and Milner..

[Flash Gordon]

We did have an enquiry from a Championship team to take Cattermole on loan (Forest i'd heard) and i did say that Cabral, Ji, two of Larsson, Vaughan and Gardner and Cattermole could leave to free up the wages.

It's very unlikely that they wanted to pay all of Cattermole's wages though or Di Canio would have probably let him go. Also, like I said, nobody wants Larsson, Gardner and Vaughan. We were offering Vaughan around for £1m and no-one wanted him. Larsson and Gardner are likely on £40k a week. Who wants to pay a transfer fee and pay them big wages?

You make it sound like it would have been easy when the reality is very different.

 

[Lord Alfred]

I know Milners Mam & Dad. I'll have a word.

Good lad....

 

[Connolly_31]

Di Canio said we had enquired after McCarthy PLUS another English CM at a price of £11m.....who do you think that could be then.

Wilshere or Gerrard IMO.[DOUBLEPOST=1379249551][/DOUBLEPOST]

Di Canio said we had enquired after McCarthy PLUS another English CM at a price of £11m.....who do you think that could be then.

Also, link to quote please

 

[Lord Alfred]

It's very unlikely that they wanted to pay all of Cattermole's wages though or Di Canio would have probably let him go. Also, like I said, nobody wants Larsson, Gardner and Vaughan. We were offering Vaughan around for £1m and no-one wanted him. Larsson and Gardner are likely on £40k a week. Who wants to pay a transfer fee and pay them big wages?

You make it sound like it would have been easy when the reality is very different.

Where there's a will there's a way....unfortunately the will wasn't there to pay the going rate for the quality we needed and we are subsequently paying the price.[DOUBLEPOST=1379249623][/DOUBLEPOST]

Wilshere or Gerrard IMO.[DOUBLEPOST=1379249551][/DOUBLEPOST]
Also, link to quote please

It's there......others have seen it.....find it yourself.

 

[Flash Gordon]

Where there's a will there's a way....unfortunately the will wasn't there to pay the going rate for the quality we needed and we are subsequently paying the price.

Or the will wasn't there from other clubs to pay the inflated wages that our current mediocre crop of players earn.

 

[Perryqhill]

There seems to be some evidence that we may have enquired about these two. Just for the sake of argument how do you think our team would look with these two in.

Finance first...roughly £23m say for the two. We could have taken the offer for Ji (say £4m)....and made more strenuous attempts to offload any two of Gardner, Vaughan and Larsson (even if it was only £3m for the two). We need not have signed Cabral, kept N'Diaye and Cattermole could have been loaned out to free up the wages.

So, roughly a £16m net spend for the window.

............................................................Westwood.......................................................

Celutska...............................O'Shea..............Brown/Diakite..................Colback

.Johnson............................Milner...............McCarthy...........................Giacch

....................................Fletcher.............................Altidore

Away from home and at home to the top teams......add Ki to the middle and go 451.

Subs (from)...Mannone, Brown or Diakite, Cuellar, Dossena, Roberge, Larsson or Gardner, N'Diaye, Ki, Karlsson, Mavrias, Ba, Borini, Fletcher or Altidore in some games and Wickham.

That's a genuine top half of the table team imo with loads of options from the bench......all for less than most teams have spent this summer.

Edit....and seeing as 9 of those favour English as their native tongue it should put paid to the communication problems.

TBh mate I think it's a bit of a fanciful idea that we'd have signed Ki, McCarthy and Milner, regardless of whom we let go. Doing so would have blown what looks like a limited budget during the summer. We'd certainly not have added players on the wages of Milner or the fee of McCarthy then still completely changed the squad around.

 

[Captain_Fishpaste]

Di Canio said we had enquired after McCarthy PLUS another English CM at a price of £11m.....who do you think that could be then.

Doesn't mean we were trying to get both. Would have been one or the other.

 

[Lord Alfred]

TBh mate I think it's a bit of a fanciful idea that we'd have signed Ki, McCarthy and Milner, regardless of whom we let go. Doing so would have blown what looks like a limited budget during the summer. We'd certainly not have added players on the wages of Milner or the fee of McCarthy then still completely changed the squad around.

Trouble is though Perry that limited budget is going to be our downfall. We didn't need to add 14 players imo....but we did need to add a bit more quality than we did.[DOUBLEPOST=1379249935][/DOUBLEPOST]

Doesn't mean we were trying to get both. Would have been one or the other.

Very true...either would have allowed us to play a 2 man CM imo....which is what Di Canio seems to want to do.[DOUBLEPOST=1379250046][/DOUBLEPOST]

Or the will wasn't there from other clubs to pay the inflated wages that our current mediocre crop of players earn.

Other clubs offload players on high wages.....you just have to incentivise the buyer.

 

[Connolly_31]

Where there's a will there's a way....unfortunately the will wasn't there to pay the going rate for the quality we needed and we are subsequently paying the price.[DOUBLEPOST=1379249623][/DOUBLEPOST]


It's there......others have seen it.....find it yourself.

I haven't and because you can't produce anything ill take it as bullshit.

 

[Perryqhill]

Trouble is though Perry that limited budget is going to be our downfall. We didn't need to add 14 players imo....but we did need to add a bit more quality than we did.

We did need quality and the budget will be limited to a degree, it has to be seeing how much we lose each season. However moving players in and out costs a lot, so even though on the face of it we look to have spent little during the summer it wont actually be the case. My only hope this season is that one or two of the young lads come through, otherwise the whole squad overhaul will have been a complete waste.

We still have too many players clogging up the wage bill not contributing though.

 

[Lord Alfred]

I haven't and because you can't produce anything ill take it as bullshit.

"One British midfielder we were asked £11m for.

"A normal player, good British but £11m is not possible. He's not a top-class footballer. This can be a problem. Everyone has to understand we have to be responsible."

Sunderland also inquired about James McCarthy, who eventually left Wigan for Everton. "We went, for example, for a player who played for a team relegated into the Championship," said Di Canio. "They asked for £12m for a player who, with all respect, is a very good player but not for this money."

You must be logged on to see external links

 

[Connolly_31]

"One British midfielder we were asked £11m for.

"A normal player, good British but £11m is not possible. He's not a top-class footballer. This can be a problem. Everyone has to understand we have to be responsible."

Sunderland also inquired about James McCarthy, who eventually left Wigan for Everton. "We went, for example, for a player who played for a team relegated into the Championship," said Di Canio. "They asked for £12m for a player who, with all respect, is a very good player but not for this money."

You must be logged on to see external links

Thanks

 

[Flash Gordon]

Trouble is though Perry that limited budget is going to be our downfall. We didn't need to add 14 players imo....but we did need to add a bit more quality than we did.[DOUBLEPOST=1379249935][/DOUBLEPOST]

Other clubs offload players on high wages.....you just have to incentivise the buyer.

No, what they do usually is incentivise the player, effectively paying him off, which is costly and is still assuming they want to leave.

Ok then smartarse, here's the squad at the end of last season, instead of signing all of the players, what would you have done instead:

Mignolet, Westwood, Bardsley, Kilgallon, Bramble, O'Shea, Brown, Cuellar, Colback, N'Diaye, Cattermole, Larsson, Gardner, Vaughan, Johnson, McClean, Sessegnon, Graham, Fletcher, Ji

 

[Lord Alfred]

Thanks

You're welcome....[DOUBLEPOST=1379251945][/DOUBLEPOST]

No, what they do usually is incentivise the player, effectively paying him off, which is costly and is still assuming they want to leave.

Ok then smartarse, here's the squad at the end of last season, instead of signing all of the players, what would you have done instead:

Mignolet, Westwood, Bardsley, Kilgallon, Bramble, O'Shea, Brown, Cuellar, Colback, N'Diaye, Cattermole, Larsson, Gardner, Vaughan, Johnson, McClean, Sessegnon, Graham, Fletcher, Ji

Sell Mig, Sess, Elmo (you forgot him) and McClean as we did......roughly £2om.

Add Ji.....we had offers apparently.....£4m....total £24m

Attempt to sell any from Larsson, Vaughan, Gardner (not all three though)....say £3m...total £27m.

Allow for a realistic addition from the TV money.....say £10-12m....total.....£37-40m( ish)

Milner...£11m, McCarthy £12m, Caulker 8m, Redmond £2m Altidore £7m....total £4om

That's 5 definite 1st team improvements......using the Bosman and loan systems for half a dozen squad fillers...as we have done.

..........................................................Westwood.................................................................

Celutska............................O'Shea...............Caulker.........................Colback

.......Johnson............................Milner...........McCarthy...................Redmond

...................................................Fletcher.........Altidore...................................

Just my opinion....as ever..

 

[Flash Gordon]

You're welcome....[DOUBLEPOST=1379251945][/DOUBLEPOST]


Sell Mig, Sess, Elmo (you forgot him) and McClean as we did......roughly £2om.

Add Ji.....we had offers apparently.....£4m....total £24m

Attempt to sell any from Larsson, Vaughan, Gardner (not all three though)....say £3m...total £27m.

Allow for a realistic addition from the TV money.....say £10-12m....total.....£37-40m( ish)

Milner...£11m, McCarthy £12m, Caulker 8m, Redmond £2m Altidore £7m....total £4om

That's 5 definite 1st team improvements......using the Bosman and loan systems for half a dozen squad fillers...as we have done.

..........................................................Westwood.................................................................

Celutska............................O'Shea...............Caulker.........................Colback

.......Johnson............................Milner...........McCarthy...................Redmond

...................................................Fletcher.........Altidore...................................

Just my opinion....as ever..

So you've spent £20m more than we have now and you've added £10m to the wage bill (although you might have got half of it back).

Who is our back up keeper?
Who is our back up right back? (you've sold Gardner)
Who is our back up left back?
We have Kilgallon and Brown as back up centre backs, are you happy with that?
Who is our cover on the left and right wings? (you've sold Larsson, McClean and Elmo)
Our central midfield back up is a crocked Catts, a poor Vaughan and N'Diaye who you don't rate, are you happy with that?
Our back up strikers are Wickham (we all know your opinions on him) and Danny Graham, are you happy with those options?

How many bosmans/loans do we need to sign to fill those holes?

 

[Scootsie]

Would've loved Milner here.

 

[Perryqhill]

You're welcome....[DOUBLEPOST=1379251945][/DOUBLEPOST]


Sell Mig, Sess, Elmo (you forgot him) and McClean as we did......roughly £2om.

Add Ji.....we had offers apparently.....£4m....total £24m

Attempt to sell any from Larsson, Vaughan, Gardner (not all three though)....say £3m...total £27m.

Allow for a realistic addition from the TV money.....say £10-12m....total.....£37-40m( ish)

Milner...£11m, McCarthy £12m, Caulker 8m, Redmond £2m Altidore £7m....total £4om

That's 5 definite 1st team improvements......using the Bosman and loan systems for half a dozen squad fillers...as we have done.

..........................................................Westwood.................................................................

Celutska............................O'Shea...............Caulker.........................Colback

.......Johnson............................Milner...........McCarthy...................Redmond

...................................................Fletcher.........Altidore...................................

Just my opinion....as ever..

Wasn't our wage to turnover ratio something like 89% last season anyway? Your TV money every season just goes in that pot. There's no way we could ever have afforded to do something like that. Wages, as ever, are the real problem here.

 

[Rip Van Fish]

I doubt we'd have paid Milner's wages.

Absolute Fact.

 

[Clatts]

Absolute Opinion.

Agreed

 

[Mikeftw]

What's the fuss about this McCarthy lad?