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Lets All Laugh At Newcastle (Again!)

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The Fish said:
I know that you will twist logic to fit your narrative but when the great and the good of football say that Benitez didn't have enough time, I'll take their word over a biased Sunderland fan. Carragher said, before Benitez had even taken charge of a game, that he's unsure there were enough games left as Rafa isn't firebrand motivator, he'd need time to turn the ship around.

We went down because we accrued insufficient points over 38 games to end the season outside the bottom three. You can point at 3 games if you like but that's cherry picking at it's worst. We would have stayed up had McClaren beaten Villa and not lost to you, or prevented Everton and Watford from doing the double over us, and so on.

It's revisionist to declare that Rafa was to blame for our relegation, just as it's revisionist to declare that sunderland sent us down.

I understand why you would try to manipulate the facts to show either of these things though, so if it helps, you crack on old boy.
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So Carragher said he wasn't good enough to keep you up, the job he was employed to do. You are now using this as evidence to defend Benitez?
He just happens to be the wrong type of 'World class manager'?
For the record, I doubt I would have managed to keep you up either so if you want to build a statue in my honour, crack on.
 
The Fish said:
No great loss when he goes and we should still get a decent profit from any sale.


I can help if you like, but I suspect you're being a cheeky monkey.
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No my dear fellow, as if I would be being a cheeky monkey. I am merely puzzled when looking at the directly comparable 10 games managed by both men. There appears to only be a 2 point difference between the pair across the same 10 games which seems like a very small variance (draw instead of win) for one of them to be regarded as useless by a large number of Newcastle fans whilst the other, is lauded as having made a massive difference to results, and chased to remain at the club. The gulf in perception between the two is all a bit of a mystery for those of us who have actually seen the direct comparison of games, I fear.

I have no doubt that you have seen some tremendous improvement in team spirit and that this has provided some form of hope of future good results, however, any claim that results have measurably improved, seem incorrect to me.

..........................Benitez.......McClaren
Spurs.................Win...........Win
Villa...................Draw.........Draw
Palace................Win...........Loss
Liverpool...........Draw.........Win
Man City...........Draw..........Loss
Swansea............Win............Loss
Southampton....Loss...........Draw
Norwich............Loss...........Win
Sunderland.......Draw..........Loss
Leicester...........Loss............Loss
Total points 13 points 11 points
 
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The Fish said:
I respectfully disagree. While Sunderland AFC's results were not of little import, they were not the driving force behind Newcastle United's relegation. No more than Everton's or Norwich's. The credit must go to Newcastle United chiefly, then the 19 other teams in the Premier League thereafter. Had Norwich, Everton & Arsenal bothered to turn up for games against yourselves or Crystal Palace we would have survived. Had we turned up against Villa (a), Bournemouth (h) and Stoke (a) we would have survived.

I understand why it would be pleasing to be the chief architects of a rival team's relegation, but unless we were level on points, GD, and had met in the final game of the season to decide who survived or not, it's just not true. You discount the 19 other teams whose results shaped the table, you've discounted 37 other games which shaped Newcastle United's season. You've done so, because it suits the narrative that "Sunderland sent Newcastle down.", which, while poetic, isn't accurate.

Much as the line that the wins against Newcastle kept you up in the previous few seasons, they helped, but they weren't the sole reason for your survival, as you accrued points from other games either side of that result, didn't you?
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Oh dear. Perhaps you have indeed turned to the bottle for solace.

I't's perfectly obvious that Sunderland AFC were not solely responsible for Newcastle United's return to their original state of being, but it's equally clear that they bore the ultimate responsibility for wielding the axe at the vital moment, which you must agree was applied with decisiveness and no little aplomb.

I'll report to the chaps at the club that you've chosen to continue to flog your poor unfortunate late nag (which is of course your prerogative), ignoring our best advice to you. If I could offer one further piece my dear chum before I sign off : one should always know one's place.

The second tier of English football is yours to enjoy. Farewell.
 
RestlessNatives said:
So Carragher said he wasn't good enough to keep you up, the job he was employed to do. You are now using this as evidence to defend Benitez?
He just happens to be the wrong type of 'World class manager'?
For the record, I doubt I would have managed to keep you up either so if you want to build a statue in my honour, crack on.
Click to expand...
He didn't say that.

Blackness said:
I't's perfectly obvious that Sunderland AFC were not solely responsible for Newcastle United's return
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That's all I needed, thank you. Some sense at last.
 
All seems to have got a bit , "was!" ... "wasn't !"... "was!". ..."wasn't!" around here.

So, I thought I would try and intervene.

As the arcane distinction between relegating someone else and saving yourself is proving difficult to establish, and to prevent the matter from straying into the realms of the metaphysical, I think it is worth saying that it just doesn't matter what anyone on here thinks.

The whole media world and almost everyone who avails themselves of their output, has now a firmly entrenched idea of what happened last Wednesday night. That is; Sunderland relegated Newcastle. Occasionally it is mentioned that Norwich suffered similarly at the same time but usually it is just the first bit that leads and dominates the story.

Protestations will do no good. We relegated them in the consciousness of the rest of the world, and forever it will remain.

On a slight footballing note, while I definitely agree that Benitez improved their performances, they did not improve sufficiently at all when they were under pressure as the waiter himself conceded on Sunday. And that is when it counts, and that is why we escaped.

Now, let's have you lot with all the talent get back to those cartoons and the rest . I am allowing myself quite a bit more laughter time before I begin thinking of next season.
 
The Fish said:
I know that you will twist logic to fit your narrative but when the great and the good of football say that Benitez didn't have enough time, I'll take their word over a biased Sunderland fan. Carragher said, before Benitez had even taken charge of a game, that he's unsure there were enough games left as Rafa isn't firebrand motivator, he'd need time to turn the ship around.

We went down because we accrued insufficient points over 38 games to end the season outside the bottom three. You can point at 3 games if you like but that's cherry picking at it's worst. We would have stayed up had McClaren beaten Villa and not lost to you, or prevented Everton and Watford from doing the double over us, and so on.

It's revisionist to declare that Rafa was to blame for our relegation, just as it's revisionist to declare that sunderland sent us down.

I understand why you would try to manipulate the facts to show either of these things though, so if it helps, you crack on old boy.
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You seem like a reasonably intelligent chap with a well laid out argument, love the avatar by the way.

You can argue til you're blue in the face but the simple facts are thus; Sunderland put Newcastle down.

If it wasn't for Sam and our form since he took over your lot would have survived.

Hard cheese old boy!
 
The Fish said:
He didn't say that.



That's all I needed, thank you. Some sense at last.
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How man :evil: I'm trying to, as the thread title suggests "laugh at Newcastle (again!)". I want to see pictures of Mags crying, I want to watch gifs of Big Sam dancing, I want to see videos of the lads singing the heads off, I want to read sarcastic and pisstake twitter/facebook pages, I need to know that Jack Colback is crying in his f***ing coco pops every f***ing morning, I want to giggle like a schoolgirl at the Nazarethian ones fantastic efforts....and I want to do it on this thread under the guise of "Lets All Laugh At Newcastle (Again!)".
It's obvious that you don't want to, as the thread title suggests "laugh at Newcastle (again!)", so fuck off and start your own thread where those interested in your peurile drivel can read and debate it if they so wish.
And don't bother answering me because I'm not interested in anything you have to say.

Right, where's my chortle box:cool:
 
Jardin said:
No my dear fellow, as if I would be being a cheeky monkey. I am merely puzzled when looking at the directly comparable 10 games managed by both men. There appears to only be a 2 point difference between the pair across the same 10 games which seems like a very small variance (draw instead of win) for one of them to be regarded as useless by a large number of Newcastle fans whilst the other, is lauded as having made a massive difference to results, and chased to remain at the club. The gulf in perception between the two is all a bit of a mystery for those of us who have actually seen the direct comparison of games, I fear.

I have no doubt that you have seen some tremendous improvement in team spirit and that this has provided some form of hope of future good results, however, any claim that results have measurably improved, seem incorrect to me.

..........................Benitez.......McClaren
Spurs.................Win...........Win
Villa...................Draw.........Draw
Palace................Win...........Loss
Liverpool...........Draw.........Win
Man City...........Draw..........Loss
Swansea............Win............Loss
Southampton....Loss...........Draw
Norwich............Loss...........Win
Sunderland.......Draw..........Loss
Leicester...........Loss............Loss
Total points 13 points 11 points
Click to expand...

Interesting stats, especially when you consider that the last game against Spurs was a freak result. Had Spurs had a full team & weren't deflated after losing out to Leicester you could imagine that the overall points could be even, or possibly even swayed in McClaren's favour
 
General Zod said:
Interesting stats, especially when you consider that the last game against Spurs was a freak result. Had Spurs had a full team & weren't deflated after losing out to Leicester you could imagine that the overall points could be even, or possibly even swayed in McClaren's favour
Click to expand...

Also, I find it odd that Benitez was perceived to have lost points against the lower teams and to have done well against the top teams. In the games against the top teams Leicester, Liverpool, Man City and Spurs (all the games the Newcastle fans were happy with their performance in) Benitez only returned 5 points with 1W and 2 Draws whereas McClaren actually returned them 7 points with 2W and 1 Draw. It is interesting how reluctant the mag mind is to the actual facts...I suspect that Benitez is in fact a Jedi Knight.
 
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