Lets All Laugh At Newcastle (Again!)

[123SunTan]

It really is baffling to see Newcastle fans, even the odd logical one, refusing to attach any blame to Rafa. You correctly point out that Dick and PDC were in very similar positions to that of Rafa and they both did far better and achieved the objective of staying in the PL. Also, they did so with a squad that didn't have 80m spent on it. Without the game in hand Rafa had too.

Looking at just the facts (prior CV, relegation challenges, outcome) Rafa is more like Felix/Fulham than Dick/ Sunderland.

 

[Deleted User 18963]

Exactly there is no rationalisation with any of their arguements, he used context to defend Rafa, so I went back with a different context and he still argued against it. Maybe he didn't have enough time but it is an absolute fact that PDC and Dick had less with arguably poorer squads.


Aye I'm out

Absolutely, that is not even up for debate. Anyone who can not accept those points are not worth speaking too.

 

[The Fish]

Neither did PDC or Dick which was my point about context, you seem to use that word to suit your side of the arguement but it seems to have no use in suggesting otherwise.
So in reply to your suggestion Rafa failed because he didn't have time to strengthen or to rally, I'll ask a couple of simple questions requiring a simple yes or no answer

1. PDC and Dick had less time, yes or no?
2. Neither PDC or Dick were able to strengthen yes or no

In light of your suggestion that Rafa didn't have time to rally if the answer to question 1 was no then that also means Dick and PDC had less time to rally.
It's all about context after all

I think you've misunderstood. I've not once criticised the job that either Di Canio or Advocaat did in saving you. They did brilliantly and they deserve credit for that.

But Benitez's 10 games returned 13pts (1.33PpG), Di Canio's 8pts from 7 games (1.14PpG), Advocaat's 12pts from 9 (1.33PpG) and Sunderland fans are telling me their performance was superb and creditworthy (and it is) but Rafa Benitez's performance was poor...

The difference is clear, the context of the league they were in at the time. Had Di Canio's sunderland faced a late surge from Advocaat's sunderland, Di Canio's sunderland would have been relegated.

 

[cliftonville]

Those denials in full…

1. Sunderland did not relegate them.
2. Rafa was not in charge when they were relegated.
3. Neither was Shearer.
4. They haven't been relegated, they have been knocked out of the League Cup.
5. No horses were interfered with.

 

[Deleted User 18963]

I think you've misunderstood. I've not once criticised the job that either Di Canio or Advocaat did in saving you. They did brilliantly and they deserve credit for that.

But Benitez's 10 games returned 13pts (1.33PpG), Di Canio's 8pts from 7 games (1.14PpG), Advocaat's 12pts from 9 (1.33PpG) and Sunderland fans are telling me their performance was superb and creditworthy (and it is) but Rafa Benitez's performance was poor...

The difference is clear, the context of the league they were in at the time. Had Di Canio's sunderland faced a late surge from Advocaat's sunderland, Di Canio's sunderland would have been relegated.

Not been funny like but Rafa has Villa, Norwich, Sunderland to play. And a game in hand!!!

Do you believe that Rafa failed.

Yes or No

 

[123SunTan]

I think you've misunderstood. I've not once criticised the job that either Di Canio or Advocaat did in saving you. They did brilliantly and they deserve credit for that.

But Benitez's 10 games returned 13pts (1.33PpG), Di Canio's 8pts from 7 games (1.14PpG), Advocaat's 12pts from 9 (1.33PpG) and Sunderland fans are telling me their performance was superb and creditworthy (and it is) but Rafa Benitez's performance was poor...

The difference is clear, the context of the league they were in at the time. Had Di Canio's sunderland faced a late surge from Advocaat's sunderland, Di Canio's sunderland would have been relegated.

By a truly remarkable coincidence (you can't make this stuff up) all 3 faced the derby challenge on their second match and Rafa was the only one who blinked. If he had won, the resulting 3 point swing would see us relegated instead (39 to 38) of you.

 

[Teed]

The same mags were waffling on about their players being great and all they needed was a good manager to knock them into shape, well! they got one (supposedly) and he didn't.. deep down they know he's poor, but he's all they have to cling on to now, it eats away at them knowing we sent them down. Fish is a prime example he's like a man thrashing about drowning.

 

[The Fish]

Reasonable fan here (when not in Banter mode). You're thinking like Ashley or an accountant instead of as a football strategist. All points are not equivalent. The mental part (players, fans) is affected by a loss to a relegation rival at the run-in & is especially devastating. Norwich was done after they lost 0-3 to us. And math wise if you change the outcome in a match v relegation rivals the swing is amplified X2. (Even in your own example the reasoning is flawed bc the relegation rivals would have fewer points).

I absolutely agree that certain results can have a greater impact, for example, I honestly believe had you lost to us in a derby over recent seasons, you would have been relegated. Not just because you'd have been 3pts (or 6pts ) worse off, but the emotional and motivational boost you received wouldn't have transpired. That isn't to say we kept you up, but those games were the catalyst for your survivals.

Fair point re: the relegation swing though.

 

[janey]

By a truly remarkable coincidence (you can't make this stuff up) all 3 faced the derby challenge on their second match and Rafa was the only one who blinked. If he had won, the resulting 3 point swing would see us relegated instead (39 to 38) of you.

Don't talk facts and sense to him, it's all about context man

 

[The Fish]

By a truly remarkable coincidence (you can't make this stuff up) all 3 faced the derby challenge on their second match and Rafa was the only one who blinked. If he had won, the resulting 3 point swing would see us relegated instead (39 to 38) of you.

I don't think Rafa blinked, I think we got a point, which if you look at our record in the Derby, can't be sniffed at.

I can't imagine how difficult it must have been to prepare for that game, where not one of our players had won a derby. Where we were in a relegation fight when all the talk from McClaren was top 8 and a trophy

I think most of my mates would agree that we'd have happily taken a point before kick off, at half time and at full time.

 

[Deleted User 18963]

I don't think Rafa blinked, I think we got a point, which if you look at our record in the Derby, can't be sniffed at.

I can't imagine how difficult it must have been to prepare for that game, where not one of our players had won a derby. Where we were in a relegation fight when all the talk from McClaren was top 8 and a trophy

I think most of my mates would agree that we'd have happily taken a point before kick off, at half time and at full time.

Did Rafa fail fish?

Simple yes or no

 

[123SunTan]

I don't think Rafa blinked, I think we got a point, which if you look at our record in the Derby, can't be sniffed at.

I can't imagine how difficult it must have been to prepare for that game, where not one of our players had won a derby. Where we were in a relegation fight when all the talk from McClaren was top 8 and a trophy

I think most of my mates would agree that we'd have happily taken a point before kick off, at half time and at full time.

But the point is that PDC and Dick also had same issues and despite being an even more massive underdog took all 3 points.

(Rafa's 1.33 pts pace can't be denied so I'm not arguing that he isn't the best path forward).

 

[Uncle D]

Oh dear. It's not all about you lot, old boy. We lost to better and worse sides than you in the 15/16 season, it wasn't just the Sunderland results that sent us down, it was those results and the other 36 too.

It may give your season the cherry on top, and you should enjoy that, but saying you sent us down is like saying you also sent Norwich down, (which I've not seen anyone crowing about thus far) or Everton's performance sent us down (which I've not seen anyone claiming). Charnley, McClaren and the players sent us down, you just got to enjoy the show.


Context dear boy, context.

Put this into context, fuck off you boring twat.

 

[Pup]

If we had beaten Watford and Everton, we would have stayed up.
Our season wasn't about your success or failure, it was our limitations that were our undoing. Sunderland AFC didn't relegate Newcastle United, Newcastle United relegated Newcastle United.

Im not talkingg about newcastles results though im talking about sunderlands,

11th may, sunderland played 36, newcastle played 37 - newcastle not relegated.

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12th may, sunderland played 37, newcastle played 37 - newcastle relegated.

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[GBSAFC]

Those denials in full…

1. Sunderland did not relegate them.
2. Rafa was not in charge when they were relegated.
3. Neither was Shearer.
4. They haven't been relegated, they have been knocked out of the League Cup.
5. No horses were interfered with.

6. Graham Carr is to blame (for everything)
7. Rafa isnt touting himself to other clubs at this point in time, or stalling, or praying everton wants him

 

[The Fish]

Did Rafa fail fish?

Simple yes or no

It's not a yes or no situation though. He dramatically improved the club's form and performances, he brought performances from players who most fans had given up on and he's laid groundwork for future good work. If all you need is for me to type the words "Rafa Benitez didn't keep Newcastle up", then I'd say there you go. I hope that gives you succour in times of need.

Im not talkingg about newcastles results though im talking about sunderlands,

11th may, sunderland played 36, newcastle played 37 - newcastle not relegated.



12th may, sunderland played 37, newcastle played 37 - newcastle relegated.

I've been through this far too many times for you not to have read it. Sunderland's results kept Sunderland up, Newcastle's results sent Newcastle down.

 

[Deleted User 18963]

It's not a yes or no situation though. He dramatically improved the club's form and performances, he brought performances from players who most fans had given up on and he's laid groundwork for future good work. If all you need is for me to type the words "Rafa Benitez didn't keep Newcastle up", then I'd say there you go. I hope that gives you succour in times of need.



I've been through this far too many times for you not to have read it. Sunderland's results kept Sunderland up, Newcastle's results sent Newcastle down.

That will do

Hail the Rafalution!

 

[The Fish]

Those denials in full…

1. Sunderland did not relegate them.
2. Rafa was not in charge when they were relegated.
3. Neither was Shearer.
4. They haven't been relegated, they have been knocked out of the League Cup.
5. No horses were interfered with.

I think this is yours

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That will do

Hail the Rafalution!

Jesus wept,

When do the grown ups arrive?

 

[Pup]

It's not a yes or no situation though. He dramatically improved the club's form and performances, he brought performances from players who most fans had given up on and he's laid groundwork for future good work. If all you need is for me to type the words "Rafa Benitez didn't keep Newcastle up", then I'd say there you go. I hope that gives you succour in times of need.



I've been through this far too many times for you not to have read it. Sunderland's results kept Sunderland up, Newcastle's results sent Newcastle down.

At whos expense?

 

[123SunTan]

Sunderland's results kept Sunderland up, Newcastle's results sent Newcastle down.

This is usually true but this year bc 3 teams were fighting for the 1 survival spot to the wire ... It's called Poyetic License