Lee Congerton and Steve Houston's Focus On Analytics

[Scary nuns]

Oh you obviously dont know why he really got the push at Utd.

His ass man was unable to get ahead of the curve? Messy.

 

[Lee Street]

wont impress the jumpers for goalposts brigade who eschew dof's and other 21st century football necessities

 

[Rober33]

you wouldn't necessarily need to as long as that stat was consistently true to form.

it's easy to see how it wouldn't work but would you rather just let Steve Bruce or harry redknapp have free reign buy players based on who they think will be good. Then they leave and you need a knew squad.


and yet defenders are still worth less than forwards.

It's a good job mate, the number of defenders we need to bring in

 

[ANonnyMoose]

I'm reading a book at the minute called "The Numbers Game". It's very similar to Soccernomics if anyone has read that and so far is a good read which I would recommend. There's an upcoming chapter called "they should have just signed Darren Bent" which should be interesting

Anyway, there's a reference made to Lee Congerton and Steve Houston (who for those who don't know is one of our scouts now) when they were at Hamburg. The author talks briefly about them being brought to Hamburg by Frank Arnesen. They're also referred to as intriguing (the author did meet them so hopefully there will be a bit more information on them as the book progresses).

Houston is a former insurance analyst who has worked with NBA teams and is one of footballs main technical scouts - i.e. he uses lots of data and statistics to determine potential recruits to target and areas in his own teams that need improving on. Things weren't going well at the time on the pitch for Hamburg so it never really took off for Congerton and Houston over there, but I think it is interesting that they seem to focus on the analytical side of the game.

It would suggest that we will be targeting players who rank high in certain statistical categories. I'm far too lazy to check myself and wouldn't have access to the reputable sites such as OPTA to check in any case, but it would be interesting to see if Pantimillon, Gomez and Jones as signings we have brought in so far have ranked near the top of any relevant statistical categories.

While a balance needs to be struck and one shouldn't judge everything off what a computer throws out, in my opinion it's good to see that we are trying to get ahead of the curve with having people who use as much information as possible to try to ensure a signing will be successful involved in our recruitment.

I just started reading that book yesterday as well! I read parts of the Darren Bent chapter in the shop before buying it, it talks about Bent being the best "important goal scorer" i.e. scoring goals that win games as opposed to the 5th goal in a rout. Also listed are Stephen Fletcher and a Mr Gyan, if I remember correctly...

Also those asking why defenders cost less than strikers, I believe a mister B Clough saying something like this when breaking the transfer record for Peter Shilton!

 

[Richie K]

Certainly worked well for Hamburg.

 

[West Winger]

We're behind the curve. Allardyce was doing this stuff at Bolton.
Moyes had a three special IT rooms added to Evertons training ground with access limited to him, his ass man,

Billy Gunn?

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[Flash Gordon]

There is definitely a place for analytics in football and I'm glad that it's a method this club is endorsing. It's easy to see when a player is having a good game but it's far better to know the numbers behind each aspect of your teams game and the specific factors that explain why he is having a good game.

We've all seen good players at one club transfer to another club and be unable to replicate their form. Having the analysis of potential transfer targets, seeing where specifically they excel and considering the environment in which they play the game will surely minimise the risk of transfers failing.

It can't hurt if we can apply some of this to opposition scouting as well and see if we can identify an opponents strengths and weaknesses and take advantage of them.

They're not a replacement for seeing things with your own eyes but a very good tool to aid the decision making process and are absolutely vital in modern sport. We won't be the only club using this approach but that doesn't mean we can't try and be the best at it.

 

[raven_5]

wont impress the jumpers for goalposts brigade who eschew dof's and other 21st century football necessities

No, doesn't impress me until I see improvement on the pitch. So far Hamburg nearly went down with all that analytics. And talking about the statistics, I'm not that confident since Congerton thinks a player who didn't impress at all in the Prem until now, and he's 29, it's our no. 10 while he assisted 1 goal in 4 Prem seasons.

But not being impressed doesn't mean I don't hope he'll be great at his job, just that I keep my reservations.

 

[SandDancer]

If only we had Congerton and Houston in earlier, we might have avoided the legend that is Altidore.

Fron 2012 interview:

"There are lots of examples. In Holland there seem to be more goals scored so very often you find a lot of strikers scoring over 20 goals per season. How does that translate into other leagues? You can look at historical trends for players who made that transition. That's what a lot of teams are trying to find out - how you can effectively make that translation."

"You need to ask how many times we have seen them and have we seen them against top-quality .."

 

[Father Jack Hackett]

wont impress the jumpers for goalposts brigade who eschew dof's and other 21st century football necessities

Why are 99% of your posts little digs at people from the other side of the world? Were you left on your own as a child?

As you say, it's a necessity but such stats can also give a very false impression of a player.

 

[Red N White Baron]

I'm still non the wiser what a Director of Football actually is. All this has done is muddy the waters even further

 

[riffraff]

it's different to that, you can look at ball retention if you want that type of player but what congerton does is look for a plus minus stat where they'll score players based purely on the teams stats while they're on the pitch, it's obviously more complicated than that but it's linked to basketball where players who don't seem like superstars but when they're on the pitch their team get points and when they get subbed they start to concede them.

A basic analogy would be seb larrson who seems average most of the time but if you look at last season he invariably played in our victories last season and missed our defeats iirc.

Bob Paisley was deeing this stuff in his head. Liverpool rarely bought the best player in any position available (IE Kennedy compared with Sansom etc). what they did do is buy players who could score goals from EVERY position as opposed to ones who scored every five or six years (IE Kennedy compared to Sansom). Phil Neale, Tommy Smith etc always chipped with 2 or 3 goals a season. THATS why they were the best team around: goals from every position. In my 45 yrs of match attendance SAFC have never seemed to be aware that EVERY player is allowed to score a goal.

 

[Lee Street]

Why are 99% of your posts little digs at people from the other side of the world? Were you left on your own as a child?

As you say, it's a necessity but such stats can also give a very false impression of a player.

Apologies.
I'll use your posts as the benchmark for board etiquette in future

 

[Maxie]

So........has Congerton got first dibs on a beta of FM15 or not??

 

[The Situation]

If only we had Congerton and Houston in earlier, we might have avoided the legend that is Altidore.

Fron 2012 interview:

"There are lots of examples. In Holland there seem to be more goals scored so very often you find a lot of strikers scoring over 20 goals per season. How does that translate into other leagues? You can look at historical trends for players who made that transition. That's what a lot of teams are trying to find out - how you can effectively make that translation."

"You need to ask how many times we have seen them and have we seen them against top-quality .."

The same book I was referring to in the OP also mentioned about trends of goals in leagues across Europe. I cannot remember specifically the figure as I don't have the book to hand at the minute, but it stated that regardless of people perceiving Spanish football to have far worse defending than the Premier League, Italian football to be more defensive etc, the trend of goals per game across the 4 major leagues (PL, La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga) shows no noticeable difference - it's around 2.66 goals per game.

However, it's mentioned that other leagues that are deemed to be outside the rankings of the top 4 leagues ranked by UEFA at the time of publishing, such as Holland, do see more goals per game than the aforementioned. Obviously more goals per game = more goals to be hoovered up by the players, so what he is saying makes sense.

 

[ReaL Madras]

Football has been analytical in some form or other for years and years. I remember John Beck worked this way in the heavily criticized "Long Ball" style of play. Graham Taylor took on many of those theoretical approaches. Interestingly, I think that Beck is employed by the FA training the coaches for their UEFA B License.

Like all things, you need to consider the whole picture.

 

[Lewberry pie]

Bob Paisley was deeing this stuff in his head. Liverpool rarely bought the best player in any position available (IE Kennedy compared with Sansom etc). what they did do is buy players who could score goals from EVERY position as opposed to ones who scored every five or six years (IE Kennedy compared to Sansom). Phil Neale, Tommy Smith etc always chipped with 2 or 3 goals a season. THATS why they were the best team around: goals from every position. In my 45 yrs of match attendance SAFC have never seemed to be aware that EVERY player is allowed to score a goal.

exactly which is why it's important we get with the times even if it is 50 years too late.

 

[Moneyball]

Football has been analytical in some form or other for years and years. I remember John Beck worked this way in the heavily criticized "Long Ball" style of play. Graham Taylor took on many of those theoretical approaches. Interestingly, I think that Beck is employed by the FA training the coaches for their UEFA B License.

Like all things, you need to consider the whole picture.

He also kept the grass longer in the corners of the pitch to hold up any over hit fullback turning punt!

Mad as a box of frogs!

 

[ReaL Madras]

He also kept the grass longer in the corners of the pitch to hold up any over hit fullback turning punt!

Mad as a box of frogs!

It is disturbing that he is coaching the coaches!!! We wonder why we are in a mess....I have no idea but I bet that Howard Wilkinson bought into his theories also!

 

[Moneyball]

It is disturbing that he is coaching the coaches!!! We wonder why we are in a mess....I have no idea but I bet that Howard Wilkinson bought into his theories also!

Oh its more than disturbing! Saw him coach an example session full 11v11 - how to play from the back. Bollocked the fullback for playing into the CM and not the channel for the striker. This is the future for England. Clueless. Jobs for the boys. Archaic.