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June to July 2020 - NUFC

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The Fish said:
They can hope for a return to it, they can realistically say that it's not beyond the club. In terms of expectations? I guess it's relevant, but it becomes less significant as time moves on. The early 90s was >25yrs ago. By comparison, Newcastle stopped being a European regular 13 yrs ago.

Because not all clubs have Leicester's finances, not all owners see it as the best way for their club to operate, not all owners have aspirations or ambitions as lofty.

Plank.

Brighton's ambitions are beyond Ashley's for Newcastle. They've pumped millions into their training facilities, their stadium, they've a more joined-up, ambitious approach to recruitment, to managerial appointments.

Watford are part of a larger footballing entity and will benefit from the relationships that that brings.
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Stop being daft we both know Newcastle have competed with these 3 clubs since they have been in the PL. Can you hoy up the 3 clubs positions over the last 3 seasons and the results in the games.
 
Sima said:
What’s this?


1 Quarter Final each tbf.
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The owner put his hand in his pocket for £25m+ Shelvey and Townsend to add to the summer signings. Rafa then got the gig and failed to beat Sunderland, Norwich and Villa and got relegated.

Bankrolled another 50m or something like that in the summer to bounce back at first attempt?

He might not be the owner you think you deserve, but he’s nowhere near as bad as you lot make out - mock funerals, shouting at shops, MP’s bringing it up in parliament.
 
LJP1786 said:
The owner put his hand in his pocket for £25m+ Shelvey and Townsend to add to the summer signings. Rafa then got the gig and failed to beat Sunderland, Norwich and Villa and got relegated.

Bankrolled another 50m or something like that in the summer to bounce back at first attempt?

He might not be the owner you think you deserve, but he’s nowhere near as bad as you lot make out - mock funerals, shouting at shops, MP’s bringing it up in parliament.
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Those players weren’t bought under Benitez though? Weird to criticise him for players he didn’t even sign like.
Fitzgerald said:
Aye I was down Tottenham when they pissed on us but that was the best atmosphere I've heard at an away game despite losing 4-0
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It was Hull who we played in the QF under Benitez. Spurs was under The King iirc.
 
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Fitzgerald said:
Our supporters have totally different levels of what's good and acceptable, based mainly on what happened in the 90s. Sunlun might see premier league mediocrity and 1 season in Europe in 13 years as decent

But when us mags grew up challenging for the title and in Europe for about 10 seasons in a row then what has happened in the Ashley years has been a disgrace
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But you also spent way above your means so was completely unsustainable. Every supporter has ambitions of winning something, the reality is only 3 clubs win something every season.
 
DPTT said:
But you also spent way above your means so was completely unsustainable. Every supporter has ambitions of winning something, the reality is only 3 clubs win something every season.
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Ashley saved them after they were unsustainable with his interest free loan and got the club stable.

Hes a wanker though... :rolleyes:🤦‍♂️
 
sproates33 said:
Exactly as i thought, when everythings going well it's everyone bar Ashley who is doing a good job, as soon as things go tits up everything it's his fault, no Newcaslte fan moaned about investment because it was all going well.

You have worded that to suit your own agenda again, Surely Benitez had other offers on the table when Newcastle were relegated? The fact is Ashley backed him and paid him what he wanted to stay.

My post never stated that the Carroll money was completely spent back on the playing squad, my post stated that once Carroll left, the signings made in the following window got you into Europe. The same time the likes of Enrique were sold, you brought in some very decent players in Cabaye, Santon & Demba Ba. The summer window you had in 2012-13, accepted, was quiet. You didn't lose many players (if any until January) from the squad that ended the season in 5th place. Once it got to January, signifcant investment was made on some good signings in Sissoko, Mbiwa (on paper), Debuchy, Gouffran etc. You ended the season in 16th, but also got to the Quarter Finals of the Europa League (it must have been dreadful)


Or maybe we see it for what it is, the fact that you have an owner who has ran you sustainably, has had seasons where he has backed you financially, a season in Europe, has invested money into the playing squad without saddling the club with monumental debt and has you in a position whereby you are attractive to potential buyers. He also managed to covince a manager of Benitez calibre to stay with you for three years, one being in the Championship.
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No, people weren't moaning about investment because there had been investment. How is that anything but reasonable? :lol: You lot didn't moan about Grayson until shit went south. You weren't criticising Short when you were in the Premier League. You were celebrating Stewart Donald at the beginning, and even excited because Methven appeared on a few podcasts with his spin. You were singing Will Grigg's on fire when you signed him. I'm sure you'd be singing their names had it gone well.

Benitez may have had other offers but he chose to stay at Newcastle after relegation and has stated on record that the reaction from the fans and the potential he saw for us was what convinced him to stay. Had he been purely motivated by money he'd have fucked off to China or wherever there and then. Ashley doesn't get much credit for that. Just like he doesn't get credit for not getting rid of him within the term of his contract.

The signings made directly after Carroll were a mixed bag, Carr managed to find some good players for a cheap price (Sissoko e.g.) and those successes convinced Ashley that this was the model to follow. So in subsequent seasons when Newcastle United needed strikers, or defensive midfielders, or fullbacks, or whatever, we bought attacking midfielders like Thauvin, or Marveaux, or Siem de Jong, because they're where you can get the biggest profit if it goes well. We didn't sign what the club needed, we signed based on the potential resale value. No problem with buying to sell, if the team's needs come first, but they didn't and that disjointed recruitment strategy took us down a second time.

You say you see it how it is, but then tell me this, why is it the pervading wisdom (outside of Wearside) that Ashley has been a bad owner for Newcastle United? He himself has admitted as much on record. Before Ashley bought us we were competing in Europe, bobbling around midtable. Since he bought us we've been relegated twice and spent more seasons in the Championship than we have in Europe. We've stagnated off the pitch as well, little to no investment in the facilities, the academy or the stadium. Little to no growth on the commercial side of things, an area that you'd have expected a businessman of his success to have done well.
marco popas said:
Stop being daft we both know Newcastle have competed with these 3 clubs since they have been in the PL. Can you hoy up the 3 clubs positions over the last 3 seasons and the results in the games.
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Ambition.
DPTT said:
But you also spent way above your means so was completely unsustainable. Every supporter has ambitions of winning something, the reality is only 3 clubs win something every season.
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Trying and failing to win is one thing, not even trying to improve is a whole other story.
 
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The Fish said:
No, people weren't moaning about investment because there had been investment. How is that anything but reasonable? :lol: You lot didn't moan about Grayson until shit went south. You weren't criticising Short when you were in the Premier League. You were celebrating Stewart Donald at the beginning, and even excited because Methven appeared on a few podcasts with his spin. You were singing Will Grigg's on fire when you signed him. I'm sure you'd be singing their names had it gone well.

Benitez may have had other offers but he chose to stay at Newcastle after relegation and has stated on record that the reaction from the fans and the potential he saw for us was what convinced him to stay. Had he been purely motivated by money he'd have fucked off to China or wherever there and then. Ashley doesn't get much credit for that. Just like he doesn't get credit for not getting rid of him within the term of his contract.

The signings made directly after Carroll were a mixed bag, Carr managed to find some good players for a cheap price (Sissoko e.g.) and those successes convinced Ashley that this was the model to follow. So in subsequent seasons when Newcastle United needed strikers, or defensive midfielders, or fullbacks, or whatever, we bought attacking midfielders like Thauvin, or Marveaux, or Siem de Jong, because they're where you can get the biggest profit if it goes well. We didn't sign what the club needed, we signed based on the potential resale value. No problem with buying to sell, if the team's needs come first, but they didn't and that disjointed recruitment strategy took us down a second time.

You say you see it how it is, but then tell me this, why is it the pervading wisdom (outside of Wearside) that Ashley has been a bad owner for Newcastle United? He himself has admitted as much on record. Before Ashley bought us we were competing in Europe, bobbling around midtable. Since he bought us we've been relegated twice and spent more seasons in the Championship than we have in Europe. We've stagnated off the pitch as well, little to no investment in the facilities, the academy or the stadium. Little to no growth on the commercial side of things, an area that you'd have expected a businessman of his success to have done well.

Ambition.
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Short was a far better owner than Ashley, he at least tried to make Sunderland competitive, his problem was he gave the wrong money to the wrong manager's and then eventually couldn't afford to spend anymore. Sunderland fans seem to think that because Ashley spent a few quid after Newcastle were relegated that makes him a good owner, someone will come along in a minute and say how Ashley has spend loads of money and how he bankrolled Benitez, but the truth is that the only money being spent was money Ashley had managed to make from player sales or when he got scared relegation was a possibility so he had to spend a few quid. Newcastle fans should be grateful apparently and have unrealistic expectations for wanting more than a relegation battle every season and not trying in the cups, complete madness.
 
Blue_Monday said:
Short was a far better owner than Ashley, he at least tried to make Sunderland competitive, his problem was he gave the wrong money to the wrong manager's and then eventually couldn't afford to spend anymore. Sunderland fans seem to think that because Ashley spent a few quid after Newcastle were relegated that makes him a good owner, someone will come along in a minute and say how Ashley has spend loads of money and how he bankrolled Benitez, but the truth is that the only money being spent was money Ashley had managed to make from player sales or when he got scared relegation was a possibility so he had to spend a few quid. Newcastle fans should be grateful apparently and have unrealistic expectations for wanting more than a relegation battle every season and not trying in the cups, complete madness.
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ill never get the dissatisfaction with Ellis Short.
Donald of course is terrible and rightly gets called out but Short was great for them.
 
See the waiter is back off to China, good to see he's returning to finish his project.

Mind, iirc, he had a Chinese visa sorted out, in advance, before buggering off from his previous project.

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