Jeremy Bamber White House Farm...Innocent or Evil scumbag?



Mainze

Striker
Over time a persons guilt can be diluted no matter how heinous the crime.

I say slot him and stop giving the odious twat art lessons at the taxpayers expense.
 
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admwil

Winger
I know him personally well.
It is my opinion that he is one of the most manipulative people I have ever met.
Extremely confident self centred and has the ability to convince you that the sky is green.
The barrage of high flying people and also supporters have been tempted into his web.

I didn’t know that he has passed a lie detector, however on hearing this it has now got me thinking that lie detectors are very inaccurate.

100% guilty.
I always thought innocent when looking at the evidence a good few years ago. Certainly called the investigation/prosecution in to question.

Would be interesting to hear more of your experience if you are willing to share. Sounds interesting!
 

Nukehasslefan

Central Defender
All we can go on is what is told to us and shown to us from that time.
We all know there's miscarriages of justice and we also know that some people are simply good at lying.
Bamber may well be 100% guilty and to be honest, whether he is or isn't, his age is at the wrong end of starting over with anything.
Whether he's guilty or innocent will not really matter, because either way he's not getting out and handed rakes of compensation money.

From my point of view I have absolutely no clue as to what really happened but some people have a much better understanding of what happened of that time in terms of detectives and those who knew Bamber and the family, etc.

Imagine if he is innocent. It would be just another case of someone convicted and having their life destroyed.
Looking back to stories from the past we have a host of people whose convictions were sketchy at best to downright wrong at worst.

Timothy Evans, hanged for the Rillington place murders that John Reginald Christie was eventually hanged for.
Derek Bentley hanged for shouting " let him have it" to Christopher Craig, who shot a policeman dead.

Just two injustices....or were they?

Was Timothy Evans compliant in any of it or was he fitted up?
Was Derek Bentley instigating a young Craig (16) to shoot the officer by saying " let him have it" even though it was argued he was telling Craig to let the officer have his gun.
Bentley was apparently a bit slow, mental wise but old enough to be convicted and hanged for Craigs crime. Craig could not be hanged and was sentenced as a juvenile. So it's easy to see how convictions can work for and against and how justice may not be served correctly at times, or at best be very dubious as to whether they are or not.

Anyone who hasn't seen that film with Christopher Eccleston playing Bentley in "let him have it"......it's well worth a watch.
 

Roker Skate

Goalkeeper
A couple of posts stand out on this thread, eg. the personal character reference (of which there are a few similar) and the trial attendee.

If the trial was sound and not a sham, it's unlikely the case would be where it is now. The case is a very sensitive one for Essex Constabulary, who effectively stonewall all attempts at obtaining full disclosure of the evidence.

When approached by police, the pathologist stated he was unimpressed by the notion of Bamber having carried out the killings.

However, it will eventually come to light that all three adults had fight wounds, many of which were not disclosed by the pathologist in his report. These undisclosed wounds were cuts, gouges, grazes.

Bamber didn't have long fingernails himself and he was not marked himself. He may have had a single cut or scratch on his hand which was not further investigated i.e. it was attributed to farm work or similar.

The weapon used was a .22 rifle. There are nicks in his sister's right hand consistent with her hand having gripped a machined part of a the rifle.

If Bamber carried out the killings, he would have had to enter the farmhouse without alerting the dogs and subdue three adults, with a low calibre weapon designed for shooting vermin on the farm. One of the adults, his father, was a strong farm worker. If his sister carried out the killings, she would have two adults to deal with, from a position of already being in the farmhouse, with the other two adults thinking she had gone to bed.

When the police broke in and investigated the farmhouse on the morning of the killings, they found all doors and windows secured and locked from the inside. Not just shut - but literally locked / bolted.

In the months prior to the killings, his sister experienced an episode of psychosis where she became ranting and violent to the extent that one of boyfriend's didn't feel safe and had to phone for assistance. It was also known (but not disclosed) that she had said 'all people are evil and should be killed'. She had expressed fears that one of twins wanted to have sex with her. There had been previous social services involvement. There had been ongoing concerns about the twins' welfare her ability to cope as a parent. The hallucinations she experienced had a religious bent. Her mother June, was very religious and this had caused some conflict between mother and daughter. Mam ended up with a coup de grace between the eyes.

The relatives found the exhibit that convicted Bamber, some time after the event.

The relatives inherited the Bamber estate as a result of Bamber's conviction.

Ballistics experts in the USA and UK don't believe a silencer was used in the shots to his sister (totally undermining the prosecution's case). A UK ballistics expert believes there were two silencers in police custody, both of which showed increasing levels of contaminates over a period of time during the investigation. The police are adamant there was only one silencer. The exhibit labels for silencer/s have been altered. If there was only one, its custodial record shows it was in two places at once on several occasions.

The relatives had contacts within the police (and information passed back and forth during the initial part of the investigation, where it was believed the sister had carried out the killings).

The detective who oversaw the case against Bamber, was instated as a direct result of Bamber's uncle approaching the deputy head of Essex Constabulary, to complain that Bamber wasn't being investigated for the killings.

He went on to retire early from the police (with police pension etc.) and became head of security at Bamber's uncle's caravan site.

Not disclosed for many years:

(1) Prior to the Tactical Firearms Group entering the farm, two separate police officers on spotting duty independently sighted 'what appears to be a rifle' placed against one of the upstairs windows. This event occurred just prior to the police raid. However, there was only one rifle found upstairs - and by time of the trial, that was apparently found on top of the sister's body.

(2) The TFG who broke in to the farmhouse complained internally to their superiors on several occasions, expressing 'real concerns' that the video or images they were shown of the crime scene during de-briefing session was at odds with the crime scene they initially discovered and left in intact. One couldn't even recall seeing a rifle at all. The jury who convicted Bamber where shown photos of the rifle being atop his sister.

At trial, one of the bullets from his sister's neck/throat was presented to the jury as being whole, when in fact it was fragmented (i.e. it was substituted).

Many years after the trial, documents came to light that recorded when Bamber was first informed everyone was dead inside the farmhouse. In disbelief, he accused the TFG of having shot his family. Bamber is convicted for having set up his sister to take the blame, so it is odd that he actually blamed the raid team for the deaths.

I know of at least two former Essex Police officers who believe Bamber to be innocent. One started to investigate the first three hours of the case, after he overheard some other former officers laughing at how much of a stitch-up the conviction was.

Another, who spent 10 years as a detective inside Essex Police' Major Incident Team, recently commented that the case is one of the worst examples of a UK injustice. He claims to have had 'heated arguments' with other officers, who will 'not listen to reason'. He states his former employer 'should be made to cooperate'.

It will eventually be confirmed in public domain that Bamber's girlfriend (who was coached by police) was offered 25K by the News of the World, should Bamber be convicted (1986). This pre-trial arrangement was probably set up by police back channels. In return for her testimony, she was given immunity from prosecution.

The current ITV drama got the go-ahead because it will eventually portray Bamber as being culpable. Many journalists and producers have wanted to make another documentary examining the defence arguments. No program maker will allow any defence based project to get off the ground. That tells its own story about the country we live in.

Join the dots...
 
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CatRyan

Striker
What's your views on Jeremy Bamber who is serving a whole life sentence for killing 5 members of his family.

He has passed a lie detector test and Essex police are not disclosing key documents to his defence team

Some very prominent people believe he is innocent.

White House farm on tonight 9pm itv starring the always excellent Stephen Graham with an atrocious Welsh accent apparently

I saw a compelling documentary that outlined a very strong case for reasonable doubt at the very least. I would say it deserves a retrial.
 

Cow

Central Defender
A couple of posts stand out on this thread, eg. the personal character reference (of which there are a few similar) and the trial attendee.

If the trial was sound and not a sham, it's unlikely the case would be where it is now. The case is a very sensitive one for Essex Constabulary, who effectively stonewall all attempts at obtaining full disclosure of the evidence.

When approached by police, the pathologist stated he was unimpressed by the notion of Bamber having carried out the killings.

However, it will eventually come to light that all three adults had fight wounds, many of which were not disclosed by the pathologist in his report. These undisclosed wounds were cuts, gouges, grazes.

Bamber didn't have long fingernails himself and he was not marked himself. He may have had a single cut or scratch on his hand which was not further investigated i.e. it was attributed to farm work or similar.

The weapon used was a .22 rifle. There are nicks in his sister's right hand consistent with her hand having gripped a machined part of a the rifle.

If Bamber carried out the killings, he would have had to enter the farmhouse without alerting the dogs and subdue three adults, with a low calibre weapon designed for shooting vermin on the farm. One of the adults, his father, was a strong farm worker. If his sister carried out the killings, she would have two adults to deal with, from a position of already being in the farmhouse, with the other two adults thinking she had gone to bed.

When the police broke in and investigated the farmhouse on the morning of the killings, they found all doors and windows secured and locked from the inside. Not just shut - but literally locked / bolted.

In the months prior to the killings, his sister experienced an episode of psychosis where she became ranting and violent to the extent that one of boyfriend's didn't feel safe and had to phone for assistance. It was also known (but not disclosed) that she had said 'all people are evil and should be killed'. She had expressed fears that one of twins wanted to have sex with her. There had been previous social services involvement. There had been ongoing concerns about the twins' welfare her ability to cope as a parent. The hallucinations she experienced had a religious bent. Her mother June, was very religious and this had caused some conflict between mother and daughter. Mam ended up with a coup de grace between the eyes.

The relatives found the exhibit that convicted Bamber, some time after the event.

The relatives inherited the Bamber estate as a result of Bamber's conviction.

Ballistics experts in the USA and UK don't believe a silencer was used in the shots to his sister (totally undermining the prosecution's case). A UK ballistics expert believes there were two silencers in police custody, both of which showed increasing levels of contaminates over a period of time during the investigation. The police are adamant there was only one silencer. The exhibit labels for silencer/s have been altered. If there was only one, its custodial record shows it was in two places at once on several occasions.

The relatives had contacts within the police (and information passed back and forth during the initial part of the investigation, where it was believed the sister had carried out the killings).

The detective who oversaw the case against Bamber, was instated as a direct result of Bamber's uncle approaching the deputy head of Essex Constabulary, to complain that Bamber wasn't being investigated for the killings.

He went on to retire early from the police (with police pension etc.) and became head of security at Bamber's uncle's caravan site.

Not disclosed for many years:

(1) Prior to the Tactical Firearms Group entering the farm, two separate police officers on spotting duty independently sighted 'what appears to be a rifle' placed against one of the upstairs windows. This event occurred just prior to the police raid. However, there was only one rifle found upstairs - and by time of the trial, that was apparently found on top of the sister's body.

(2) The TFG who broke in to the farmhouse complained internally to their superiors on several occasions, expressing 'real concerns' that the video or images they were shown of the crime scene during de-briefing session was at odds with the crime scene they initially discovered and left in intact. One couldn't even recall seeing a rifle at all. The jury who convicted Bamber where shown photos of the rifle being atop his sister.

At trial, one of the bullets from his sister's neck/throat was presented to the jury as being whole, when in fact it was fragmented (i.e. it was substituted).

Many years after the trial, documents came to light that recorded when Bamber was first informed everyone was dead inside the farmhouse. In disbelief, he accused the TFG of having shot his family. Bamber is convicted for having set up his sister to take the blame, so it is odd that he actually blamed the raid team for the deaths.

I know of at least two former Essex Police officers who believe Bamber to be innocent. One started to investigate the first three hours of the case, after he overheard some other former officers laughing at how much of a stitch-up the conviction was.

Another, who spent 10 years as a detective inside Essex Police' Major Incident Team, recently commented that the case is one of the worst examples of a UK injustice. He claims to have had 'heated arguments' with other officers, who will 'not listen to reason'. He states his former employer 'should be made to cooperate'.

It will eventually be confirmed in public domain that Bamber's girlfriend (who was coached by police) was offered 25K by the News of the World, should Bamber be convicted (1986). This pre-trial arrangement was probably set up by police back channels. In return for her testimony, she was given immunity from prosecution.

The current ITV drama got the go-ahead because it will eventually portray Bamber as being culpable. Many journalists and producers have wanted to make another documentary examining the defence arguments. No program maker will allow any defence based project to get off the ground. That tells its own story about the country we live in.

Join the dots...
That’s a pretty comprehensive and coherent post, how come you’re so interested in the case?
 
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Roker Skate

Goalkeeper
That’s a pretty comprehensive and coherent post, how come you’re so interested in the case?
I always remembered the case being on the telly when I was about 17. It stuck in my mind. Every time he got an appeal or a similar, it would appear on telly again. One day I made the fatal mistake of googling it.

It is a very murky case for Essex Police and the authorities. I do feel for Colin Caffell, who wrongly believes Bamber is guilty.
 
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CatRyan

Striker
I always remembered the case being on the telly when I was about 17. It stuck in my mind. Every time he got an appeal or a similar, it would appear on telly again. One day I made the fatal mistake of googling it.

It is a very murky case for Essex Police and the authorities. I do feel for Colin Caffell, who wrongly believes Bamber is guilty.
wasn't there some family that benefited from stitching him up so they got the farm and stuff? really dodgy the whole thing and a really horrendous crime to accuse someone of if you weren't nailed on certain it was them
 

Cow

Central Defender
I always remembered the case being on the telly when I was about 17. It stuck in my mind. Every time he got an appeal or a similar, it would appear on telly again. One day I made the fatal mistake of googling it.

It is a very murky case for Essex Police and the authorities. I do feel for Colin Caffell, who wrongly believes Bamber is guilty.
So you genuinely think he’s innocent then?
Guilty imo
Everything you say for a good while isn’t going to be taken that serious me thinks :lol:
 
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Roker Skate

Goalkeeper
wasn't there some family that benefited from stitching him up so they got the farm and stuff? really dodgy the whole thing and a really horrendous crime to accuse someone of if you weren't nailed on certain it was them
The uncle (who later employed the head of investigation when he retired from the force) lied in court. He said there was no benefit to him (in relation to his testimony). Turns out his wife inherited and it was then parcelled out to their kids as well, who, also happened to be prosecution witnesses.

It's worth noting that both Bamber and his sister were adopted, separately. Their wider relatives viewed Bamber with disdain. They also had no understanding as to how ill his sister was. They had no understanding of psychosis, parricide etc. Therefor, when it happened, they were left stunned and unable to comprehend how it could be Sheila. They also had a sense of entitlement. Bamber was going to inherit and they saw this as a serious risk to their own plans and what they thought they were due. In turn, he was deemed by them to be behaving in an uncaring and arrogant manner after the deaths.

So they started harassing the original investigation team, who were led by a detective that believed the sister was responsible.
 

Cow

Central Defender
no Cow... just no

totally unbuckable carry on saying that shit
You’re right, I take it back, I’ll never type that again...I think
The uncle (who later employed the head of investigation when he retired from the force) lied in court. He said there was no benefit to him (in relation to his testimony). Turns out his wife inherited and it was then parcelled out to their kids as well, who, also happened to be prosecution witnesses.

It's worth noting that both Bamber and his sister were adopted, separately. Their wider relatives viewed Bamber with disdain. They also had no understanding as to how ill his sister was. They had no understanding of psychosis, parricide etc. Therefor, when it happened, they were left stunned and unable to comprehend how it could be Sheila. They also had a sense of entitlement. Bamber was going to inherit and they saw this as a serious risk to their own plans and what they thought they were due. In turn, he was deemed by them to be behaving in an uncaring and arrogant manner after the deaths.

So they started harassing the original investigation team, who were led by a detective that believed the sister was responsible.
Have you ever looked into his birth family, don’t suppose there’d be any reason to during the investigation mind
 
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Roker Skate

Goalkeeper
So you genuinely think he’s innocent then?
On balance, the exhibit evidence against him appears to have been fabricated and the main prosecution witness was coached / at risk of prosecution herself. His relatives state they are convinced. His brother in law is convinced. I think the brother in law is actually a victim of the police and relatives. It's a very complex case.
You’re right, I take it back, I’ll never type that again...I think

Have you ever looked into his birth family, don’t suppose there’d be any reason to during the investigation mind
Not me personally. His dad had a job at the palace. I think Bamber was the product of an affair. His dad disowned him a second time, in light of the convictions.
 
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