Jeremy Bamber White House Farm...Innocent or Evil scumbag?

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Roker Skate said:
On balance, the exhibit evidence against him appears to have been fabricated and the main prosecution witness was coached / at risk of prosecution herself. His relatives state they are convinced. His brother in law is convinced. I think the brother in law is actually a victim of the police and relatives. It's a very complex case.
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I was pretty convinced after the documentary I saw that there had been a massive miscarriage of justice in this case and it was incredible to me how they had avoided condemnation over it

this would be a great subject for a Netflix documentary a la Making a Murderer
 


Roker Skate said:
On balance, the exhibit evidence against him appears to have been fabricated and the main prosecution witness was coached / at risk of prosecution herself. His relatives state they are convinced. His brother in law is convinced. I think the brother in law is actually a victim of the police and relatives. It's a very complex case.


Not me personally. His dad had a job at the palace. I think Bamber was the product of an affair. His dad disowned him a second time, in light of the convictions.
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He did indeed and Bamber wasn’t the first child he abandoned, hebwas in charge of the Royal Mews, there used to be a bit online about him, programmes he’s appeared in and photos when he hung up the announcement of William outside the palace, apparently all of that has been taken down now.
It’s a bit of an intriguing story, theres been people in the past trying to research stuff and have just come up against proper blockades of information. Makes you wonder if it’s all linked somehow.
 
Cow said:
He did indeed and Bamber wasn’t the first child he abandoned, hebwas in charge of the Royal Mews, there used to be a bit online about him, programmes he’s appeared in and photos when he hung up the announcement of William outside the palace, apparently all of that has been taken down now.
It’s a bit of an intriguing story, there's been people in the past trying to research stuff and have just come up against proper blockades of information. Makes you wonder if it’s all linked somehow.
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I think his dad went on to marry his mam and had other children which they kept. Those children will have their own adult lives and should obviously be left well alone.

Regarding 'blockade': During the original investigation, the police compiled a file of evidence that pointed towards the sister. A senior police officer was tasked with reviewing the evidence, as a result of Bamber's relatives' intervening and insisting that Bamber was guilty. The senior detective concluded that all the evidence pointed towards the sister. Neither the original case file nor the senior detective's report has ever been disclosed by Essex Police.

In addition, there was originally an inquest for which the police had to submit a report detailing their findings to the coroner (i.e. sister responsible and committed suicide). Not disclosed.
CatRyan said:
I was pretty convinced after the documentary I saw that there had been a massive miscarriage of justice in this case and it was incredible to me how they had avoided condemnation over it

this would be a great subject for a Netflix documentary a la Making a Murderer
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There seems to be a moratorium over here, for any defence related documentary (which is a bit sinister if you think about it). Scientists in USA have been involved before, so maybe a docu-maker could try.. but not sure it would be Netflix.
 
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The bullet wound sustained by Bambi was consistent with the gun being pressed against the skin and fired. The type of weapon/bullet used was said to produce “splash back” in such circumstances. There was no blood in the barrel of the rifle. There was blood in the silencer, which was found in a cupboard. Had the silencer been fitted, Bambi could not have reached the trigger to shoot herself under the chin.

Despite the worst efforts of a bumbling investigation team, the evidence against Bamber was overwhelming. But for a junior member of the investigation team not being convinced, the suspicions of the family and the intervention of his girlfriend, Bamber would have gotten away with multiple murder.
 
redandwhiterob said:
Excuse my ignorance but how can the police withhold information to his defence team?
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Very easily. They had a case file with evidence pointing towards his sister. It's never been disclosed. When they changed direction and built a case against him, they concealed as much evidence as they could that implicated his sister. They literally went through statements and put lines through them, writing "No". Those statements were then not disclosed to the defence. They allowed audio recordings of the police raid to be taped over. Over the years they have destroyed exhibits that could have been DNA tested with new techniques. They placed tonnes of documents under Public Interest Immunity, thereby making them inaccessible (not in the public's interest). It's an umbrella used to hide evidence. They retyped statements in composite form, leaving out what they wanted that didn't suit their case. They cut negatives from strips, to stop the defence from getting lab blow-ups of certain crime scene images. When they were ordered to disclose by a court, they have only ever partially disclosed, never fully. They simply state they have complied with requests for disclosure. On this case, they couldn't give a fuck. They have backing of people in authority.
Cheesy Feet said:
I remember the police saying that it was impossible for the sister to have turned the gun on herself due to the silencer being on..also she’d been shot twice..suicide..once surely..there’s just too much stacked against him.
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Roker Skate said:
Very easily. They had a case file with evidence pointing towards his sister. It's never been disclosed. When they changed direction and built a case against him, they concealed as much evidence as they could that implicated his sister. They literally went through statements and put lines through them, writing "No". Those statements were then not disclosed to the defence. They allowed audio recordings of the police raid to be taped over. Over the years they have destroyed exhibits that could have been DNA tested with new techniques. They placed tonnes of documents under Public Interest Immunity, thereby making them inaccessible (not in the public's interest). It's an umbrella used to hide evidence. They retyped statements in composite form, leaving out what they wanted that didn't suit their case. They cut negatives from strips, to stop the defence from getting lab blow-ups of certain crime scene images. When they were ordered to disclose by a court, they have only ever partially disclosed, never fully. They simply state they have complied with requests for disclosure. On this case, they couldn't give a fuck. They have backing of people in authority.
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And it's still happening but getting worse.
 
Roker Skate said:
Very easily. They had a case file with evidence pointing towards his sister. It's never been disclosed. When they changed direction and built a case against him, they concealed as much evidence as they could that implicated his sister. They literally went through statements and put lines through them, writing "No". Those statements were then not disclosed to the defence. They allowed audio recordings of the police raid to be taped over. Over the years they have destroyed exhibits that could have been DNA tested with new techniques. They placed tonnes of documents under Public Interest Immunity, thereby making them inaccessible (not in the public's interest). It's an umbrella used to hide evidence. They retyped statements in composite form, leaving out what they wanted that didn't suit their case. They cut negatives from strips, to stop the defence from getting lab blow-ups of certain crime scene images. When they were ordered to disclose by a court, they have only ever partially disclosed, never fully. They simply state they have complied with requests for disclosure. On this case, they couldn't give a fuck. They have backing of people in authority.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jeremy Bamber instigate the burning of mattresses/ carpets outside the property under the nose and with the consent of the police?
It's understandable that he could be considered not thinking straight, but wasn't he also doing away with evidence that could have helped his defence?
The Essex Police on this case were a f***ing shambles by modern standards in terms of preserving a crime scene.
He's a guilty man imo, despite some well presented arguments above.
 
I'm of the opinion that, while the case was bodged (as many were back then) he is still likely to be guilty. If there is enough evidence for a retrial then there should be one.
 
Linus said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jeremy Bamber instigate the burning of mattresses/ carpets outside the property under the nose and with the consent of the police?
It's understandable that he could be considered not thinking straight, but wasn't he also doing away with evidence that could have helped his defence?
The Essex Police on this case were a f***ing shambles by modern standards in terms of preserving a crime scene.
He's a guilty man imo, despite some well presented arguments above.
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I'm not sure about the carpets. I've heard that he requested but also that the police advised. The thing is, if you are Jeremy Bamber and about to commit this crime - how do you know in advance that the police wont take the carpets for forensics?
 
Like everybody else I don't have a clue if he did it or not. That said, i think the conviction is questionable, based on all the stuff that has come out over the years.
 
Therokerroar said:
What's your views on Jeremy Bamber who is serving a whole life sentence for killing 5 members of his family.

He has passed a lie detector test and Essex police are not disclosing key documents to his defence team

Some very prominent people believe he is innocent.

White House farm on tonight 9pm itv starring the always excellent Stephen Graham with an atrocious Welsh accent apparently
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He has been claiming this type of stuff for years, i.e. new evidence withheld from the jury, but it always turns out to be less than new 'evidence'. He has already had 3 appeals and the conclusion from all three was that the conviction is safe.

I think the new 'evidence' amounts to: a documented phone call to the police proving Bamber couldn't have been at the farm and a second silencer that was analysed during the investigation but never put before the court. That first piece of new 'evidence' would surely have seen him set free by now.

Guilty as sin, although I think there's a chance that he hired someone to do it.

In order to think Sheila did it, you would have to believe that she overpowered 6 foot Neville, wandered 'round the house shooting and reloading despite never having used a gun in her life, shot herself once and then wandered down stairs to place the silencer in the cupboard before walking back upstairs and delivering the fatal shot to herself. You would also have to believe that after shooting the whole family, she hopped in the shower to wash herself of any blood and sugar on her feet before killing herself. I also think it's correct that the only blood found on Sheila was that which could be expected from being murdered and no one else's blood was on her person.

I think that at the original trial, it was widely held that the blood in the silencer was Sheila's, although Bamber's team are now claiming that it was never proven whose blood was in the silencer and that would make a difference. Also, Bamber's team are claiming that forensic experts support the notion that the silencer was never actually used in any of the shootings. But, they have been making such claims of new 'evidence' for years and it hasn't amounted to anything.
 
Roker Skate said:
I'm not sure about the carpets. I've heard that he requested but also that the police advised. The thing is, if you are Jeremy Bamber and about to commit this crime - how do you know in advance that the police wont take the carpets for forensics?
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You seem to know a lot about it.

I’m always surprised the wider family weren’t looked at, as ultimately they have benefitted the most.

But there seem to be a few no brainless for why the sister couldn’t have done it. I saw the dna on the silencer was likely to have been hers, June’s.

But as above if the silencer wasn’t on and she committed suicide then surely there would be blood on the rifle end from point blank range and none was found. Makes it highly unlikely she shot herself.
 
Mouth said:
The bullet wound sustained by Bambi was consistent with the gun being pressed against the skin and fired. The type of weapon/bullet used was said to produce “splash back” in such circumstances. There was no blood in the barrel of the rifle. There was blood in the silencer, which was found in a cupboard. Had the silencer been fitted, Bambi could not have reached the trigger to shoot herself under the chin.

Despite the worst efforts of a bumbling investigation team, the evidence against Bamber was overwhelming. But for a junior member of the investigation team not being convinced, the suspicions of the family and the intervention of his girlfriend, Bamber would have gotten away with multiple murder.
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I don't think he was convicted on the strength of the ex-girlfriend's testimony. He was convicted on the basis of the phone call Bamber made to the police, which meant that either Sheila had gone crazy with the gun, or Bamber was lying and he was the murderer. The prosecution successfully demonstrated that Sheila could not have killed herself with the silencer on the gun, which meant Bamber was the murderer. There was also supporting circumstantial information such as: no blood or sugar on Sheila's feet, no blood on her body other than that consistent with being murdered, no experience in using a gun and she would have had to have gotten 'round the house shooting and reloading without being over-powered by 6 feet Neville. All in all, pretty damning for Bamber and, as you say, overwhelming.

There are questions to be answered though such as: why did the police not find the silencer when they searched the house? whose blood was in the silencer (it was accepted in court that it was Sheila's, but that was before the advent of reliable DNA testing)? The second point is important because if it can be successfully demonstrated that the blood realistically belonged to someone other than Sheila then clearly Sheila could have shot herself. Also, Bamber's team claim that they have backing from reliable forensic experts stating there is a good chance the silencer wasn't used in any of the murders (I think this has to do with marks on Neville's back), which again would be extremely important in terms of whether or not Bamber's conviction is safe. I would take that with a pinch of salt, however, given that Bamber's team have been making these claims about new 'evidence' more or less since his conviction.

Had he not made that phone call to the police stating Neville had called him to say Sheila had gone mental with a gun, then I doubt he would ever have been in front of a court of law let alone convicted, because there is no forensic evidence linking him to the crime scene nor witnesses. Reasonable doubt surely would have been established.
 

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