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India v England 3rd Test Rajkot


Durham-Mackem41 said:
It’s what we knew our spinners are really really poor and this does not help when your big players don’t turn up Root has 75 runs at average of 12.5 and Bairstow has made 102 runs at average of 17.
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The bowlers shouldn’t even be mentioned man. Not a single fault of them in this test.

The batsman made them field for 230 overs with a 70 over break in perfect batting conditions.
 
Today is for perspective, yes we were terrible, yes we made some mistakes yesterday morning bad ones and yes we need to learn from them.

However only need to go back to the ashes when we were two nil down and a lot on here were slaughtering Bazball and saying we were going to get beat 5-0, however this team held they nerve continued to play positively and but for 2 days of rain would have won The Ashes against a very good side.

Of course that will not happen here as Indian spinners too good and India before these series lost only 3 in 46.

So we were and always were going to get beat here.

So by all means criticism is warranted for this test match and lessons very much need to be learned.

But the piss taking and little comments about golf and towards the style of play that has transformed English test cricket fortunes I find a bit off tbh.

What is for certain this style in general is the right way to approach test cricket for this side as results have very much proven.

We could always go back to Sibley and Hameed opening if people want players who don’t give their wicket away and go back to winning 1 in 17 tests!

I sure when Morgan changed our outlook on one day cricket after 2015 they were bumps in the road in that were questioned but that team held their nerve and look how that turned out.

I am sure this test team will do the same and very much hope they do!!
 
rentaghost said:
Yet two day ago it was a 50/50 game 😂
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The only thing I suppose you could add for a little bit of balance in response to that comment is that it felt a 50/50 game two days ago because of how England played on the second day.

Ultimately, the aggressive approach is an approach that sometimes works, and sometimes doesn’t. But without perfect hindsight, you can’t necessarily work out when that is going to be. If it had failed on Friday and England had collapsed they would have been vilified on Friday night. If it had succeeded on Friday, and on Saturday, they would have been lauded as geniuses.

The one thing you can’t do though is only do it when it works and not when it doesn’t because you don’t really know that in advance. So the test for any strategy is whether it works more often than not, and there is an argument that at the moment at least that box is still being ticked.
 
Fleagle said:
The only thing I suppose you could add for a little bit of balance in response to that comment is that it felt a 50/50 game two days ago because of how England played on the second day.

Ultimately, the aggressive approach is an approach that sometimes works, and sometimes doesn’t. But without perfect hindsight, you can’t necessarily work out when that is going to be. If it had failed on Friday and England had collapsed they would have been vilified on Friday night. If it had succeeded on Friday, and on Saturday, they would have been lauded as geniuses.

The one thing you can’t do though is only do it when it works and not when it doesn’t because you don’t really know that in advance. So the test for any strategy is whether it works more often than not, and there is an argument that at the moment at least that box is still being ticked.
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Really good post that mate, that’s been my view all along with this team take the rough with the smooth, and the good days with the bad.

As long as the good days outweigh the bad days which imo, they have considerably, then the approach needs to be backed ( not the piss took out of it)

If the bad days outweigh the good days time to question the approach?
 
Fleagle said:
The only thing I suppose you could add for a little bit of balance in response to that comment is that it felt a 50/50 game two days ago because of how England played on the second day.

Ultimately, the aggressive approach is an approach that sometimes works, and sometimes doesn’t. But without perfect hindsight, you can’t necessarily work out when that is going to be. If it had failed on Friday and England had collapsed they would have been vilified on Friday night. If it had succeeded on Friday, and on Saturday, they would have been lauded as geniuses.

The one thing you can’t do though is only do it when it works and not when it doesn’t because you don’t really know that in advance. So the test for any strategy is whether it works more often than not, and there is an argument that at the moment at least that box is still being ticked.
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I'm sorry but you don't need hindsight to see that putting the turbos on, on a deteriorating track, against a team a bowler down, one bowler struggling, when you've got a good start on the board, was f***ing idiotic.

Bat time, good tempo, see out the day, we're in charge.

The first innings was f***ing moronic, and you didn't need a crystal ball, or the benefit of hindsight, to see that coming.

As for the second innings.. shit show. Utter f***ing shitshow. Embarrassing
 
TheRey said:
I'm sorry but you don't need hindsight to see that putting the turbos on, on a deteriorating track, against a team a bowler down, one bowler struggling, when you've got a good start on the board, was f***ing idiotic.

Bat time, good tempo, see out the day, we're in charge.

The first innings was f***ing moronic, and you didn't need a crystal ball, or the benefit of hindsight, to see that coming.

As for the second innings.. shit show. Utter f***ing shitshow. Embarrassing
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If you think the first innings was moronic on Friday as well, that’s fine. You are saying the tactic itself is moronic and that’s a coherent point of view. What a few people seem to be saying is that it was fine as a tactic so long as it was working, but we should have stopped doing it before it stopped working. And that’s what appears to require magical foresight.

There is also no other sport where I can imagine that would seriously be suggested. When the tactic that has got you back into the game, and is apparently seeing you dominate the opposition, would suddenly be abandoned in case it stopped working. Can you imagine the outrage on here if Beale did that?
 
Voice of fair play said:
Today is for perspective, yes we were terrible, yes we made some mistakes yesterday morning bad ones and yes we need to learn from them.

However only need to go back to the ashes when we were two nil down and a lot on here were slaughtering Bazball and saying we were going to get beat 5-0, however this team held they nerve continued to play positively and but for 2 days of rain would have won The Ashes against a very good side.

Of course that will not happen here as Indian spinners too good and India before these series lost only 3 in 46.

So we were and always were going to get beat here.

So by all means criticism is warranted for this test match and lessons very much need to be learned.

But the piss taking and little comments about golf and towards the style of play that has transformed English test cricket fortunes I find a bit off tbh.

What is for certain this style in general is the right way to approach test cricket for this side as results have very much proven.

We could always go back to Sibley and Hameed opening if people want players who don’t give their wicket away and go back to winning 1 in 17 tests!

I sure when Morgan changed our outlook on one day cricket after 2015 they were bumps in the road in that were questioned but that team held their nerve and look how that turned out.

I am sure this test team will do the same and very much hope they do!!
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I would have thought you would have realised that you never win consistently in any sport without a plan B. One size fits all will never give consistent success. Brilliant balanced verdict on Bazball by Vaughan in the Times if you can take your Bazball specs off to read it :(

It's behind a paywall otherwise I'd post it.
 
Voice of fair play said:
Today is for perspective, yes we were terrible, yes we made some mistakes yesterday morning bad ones and yes we need to learn from them.

However only need to go back to the ashes when we were two nil down and a lot on here were slaughtering Bazball and saying we were going to get beat 5-0, however this team held they nerve continued to play positively and but for 2 days of rain would have won The Ashes against a very good side.

Of course that will not happen here as Indian spinners too good and India before these series lost only 3 in 46.

So we were and always were going to get beat here.

So by all means criticism is warranted for this test match and lessons very much need to be learned.

But the piss taking and little comments about golf and towards the style of play that has transformed English test cricket fortunes I find a bit off tbh.

What is for certain this style in general is the right way to approach test cricket for this side as results have very much proven.

We could always go back to Sibley and Hameed opening if people want players who don’t give their wicket away and go back to winning 1 in 17 tests!

I sure when Morgan changed our outlook on one day cricket after 2015 they were bumps in the road in that were questioned but that team held their nerve and look how that turned out.

I am sure this test team will do the same and very much hope they do!!
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:lol:

"Yes we were terrible but..."
 
Surely you can play "Bazzball" and improvise on the hoof?
At times there were periods where a more prosaic sorta outlook was necessary, little bazzball episodes that can easily be avoided without abandoning the philosophy?
Joe roots ""Ramp"...Did it need playing at a time when we were going well anyway?
Sure Roots bought into it, but that wasn't necessary
I understand Stokes' defending it, but surely once in a while just hold yer hands up and say
"Yea..We f.ooked that up"
Cos thats what happened.
The acid pill is...
Would you put up with the odd total shambles to watch England play like they are?


I think I would
 
smoker said:
:lol:

"Yes we were terrible but..."
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Can you debate mate, been football teams beaten 6 2 and 5 0 in games yet still won leagues.

That’s sport accept and learn from bad performances but keep the faith in what you have been doing to make your team successful, it’s a really straightforward general point, not sure what amusing about it ?
Parkside said:
I would have thought you would have realised that you never win consistently in any sport without a plan B. One size fits all will never give consistent success. Brilliant balanced verdict on Bazball by Vaughan in the Times if you can take your Bazball specs off to read it :(

It's behind a paywall otherwise I'd post it.
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Yeah I agree mate learn from mistakes and adapt, but hold your nerve on what has brought you success and keep faith in general with it, while accepting at the same time Plan B needs to happen at times
 
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Very disappointing result but on balance we've done well in the other two tests so not about to throw my toys out of the pram. Also really happy to see Woods bowling well and the performance of the spinners in the last two tests.

What's a big worry is how Root is still not hitting form. He's clearly world class I just wonder whats needed to get him back to his best.

Bairstow I've no patience for so the sooner he gets replaced the better.
 
Fleagle said:
If you think the first innings was moronic on Friday as well, that’s fine. You are saying the tactic itself is moronic and that’s a coherent point of view. What a few people seem to be saying is that it was fine as a tactic so long as it was working, but we should have stopped doing it before it stopped working. And that’s what appears to require magical foresight.

There is also no other sport where I can imagine that would seriously be suggested. When the tactic that has got you back into the game, and is apparently seeing you dominate the opposition, would suddenly be abandoned in case it stopped working. Can you imagine the outrage on here if Beale did that?
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Having an aggressive mindset is fine, but not adapting to the conditions and the opposition is just stupid. Truisms in test cricket are truism because they've been tested out over decades.

If you want to equate it to Sunderland then doggedly sticking to 'the process' and not signing an experienced centre forward might just have cost us promotion.

That's an absolute hiding today, a proper 80s capitulation. No escaping it.
 
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