India v England 3rd Test Rajkot

Voice of fair play said:
Today is for perspective, yes we were terrible, yes we made some mistakes yesterday morning bad ones and yes we need to learn from them.

However only need to go back to the ashes when we were two nil down and a lot on here were slaughtering Bazball and saying we were going to get beat 5-0, however this team held they nerve continued to play positively and but for 2 days of rain would have won The Ashes against a very good side.

Of course that will not happen here as Indian spinners too good and India before these series lost only 3 in 46.

So we were and always were going to get beat here.

So by all means criticism is warranted for this test match and lessons very much need to be learned.

But the piss taking and little comments about golf and towards the style of play that has transformed English test cricket fortunes I find a bit off tbh.

What is for certain this style in general is the right way to approach test cricket for this side as results have very much proven.

We could always go back to Sibley and Hameed opening if people want players who don’t give their wicket away and go back to winning 1 in 17 tests!

I sure when Morgan changed our outlook on one day cricket after 2015 they were bumps in the road in that were questioned but that team held their nerve and look how that turned out.

I am sure this test team will do the same and very much hope they do!!
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I think it's worth remembering why Bazball came as a thing in the first place. Its because in terms of test match technically ready class batsmen we only have Root and to some extent Stokes. We are behind other nations and currently we aren't producing batsmen who are anywhere near technically as good as India, Australia and even the top order of NZ. The likes of Duckett, Crawley, Brook and Pope are playing because they can bring something else and the approach also better suited Bairstow until his form dropped of a cliff. Now its easy to say they 'need to adapt' and certainly that's true but the players mentioned there can't sit in for a session against top quality bowlers, they aren't good enough. Getting caught bat/pad, LBW or a defensive poke to keeper or slip might look more forgivable than an aggressive shot but out is out. And for all those misgivings under Bazball we have played India (2-2) Aus (2-2) and hammered NZ and Pakistan in their own back yard a combined 6-0. Its just the bad days are very bad!
 
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Voice of fair play said:
Can you debate mate, been football teams beaten 6 2 and 5 0 in games yet still won leagues.

That’s sport accept and learn from bad performances but keep the faith in what you have been doing to make your team successful, it’s a really straightforward general point, not sure what amusing about it ?

Yeah I agree mate learn from mistakes and adapt, but hold your nerve on what has brought you success and keep faith in general with it, while accepting at the same time Plan B needs to happen at times
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The season we beat the Mags 1-9 at their place they went on to be champions (only let in 20 goals in 19 home games).

Nowt much to do with cricket of course. But I just like mentioning the score. Doesnt take much of an excuse.
 
I love the way England are trying to play, it's very entertaining and as we've seen when it goes wrong it's just as spectacular as when they get it right....albeit you have to watch from behind the settee.

Root is probably the only one that I'm hacked off about. He's genuinely the only current world class batsman in the team. He needs to find a bit of form and sack off the quirky crap.

The rest of them....would it matter if they'd tried to dig in (Stokes apart) I'm not sure any of them have the technique to hang about for 50 overs and grind out 70 odd.

The issue with that is, of course, it looks utterly irresponsible to get out trying to twat the ball over the keeper's rather than nicking off to slip. However, you could argue the end result was going to be the same.

Mind Bairstow needs putting out of his misery sharpish and permanently.

I can't remember a test match where its gone from the teams looking quite even to a massacre so quickly. And someone made an excellent point that you can't expect bowlers to able to give their best when they are never getting a days rest. Stokes's inability to bowl does weaken the team balance substantially.

Whatever happens Id rather have a giggle at this morning's nonsense than return to the bad old days of the likes of Martin Bicknell, Phil Newport, Ian Salisbury, Derek Pringle etc, which was shit and never entertaining.
 
rentaghost said:
I think it's worth remembering why Bazball came as a thing in the first place. Its because in terms of test match technically ready class batsmen we only have Root and to some extent Stokes. We are behind other nations and currently we aren't producing batsmen who are anywhere near technically as good as India, Australia and even the top order of NZ. The likes of Duckett, Crawley, Brook and Pope are playing because they can bring something else and the approach also better suited Bairstow until his form dropped of a cliff. Now its easy to say they 'need to adapt' and certainly that's true but the players mentioned there can't sit in for a session against top quality bowlers, they aren't good enough. Getting caught bat/pad, LBW or a defensive poke to keeper or slip might look more forgivable than an aggressive shot but out is out. And for all those misgivings under Bazball we have played India (2-2) Aus (2-2) and hammered NZ and Pakistan in their own back yard a combined 6-0. Its just the bad days are very bad!
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Like we said before mate, there is an assumption by quite a lot of posters that if our batsman adopted a different approach we would be more successful when there is no evidence to back that up quite the contrary.

Last time in India we hardly tried to hit the ball of the square and we were absolutely slaughtered.

That said there has to be middle ground and balance and quite a few posters have made good points in that test cricket as in most cricket is about adapting to the current game situation and it needs accepting we certainly have not done that in this game.
 
The thing with Root is he used to score his runs at a decent lick anyway and I seem to remember him performing his reverse scoops on occasion when he was captain, but it was almost always when there was already a decent score on the board. He’s batting like an imbecile at the minute.

He should look at Stokes who did go quite gung-ho when he first took over the role but who now bats normally again, unless the situation requires him to go through the gears.

The openers and Pope tend to score quickly anyway.
 
Voice of fair play said:
Can you debate mate, been football teams beaten 6 2 and 5 0 in games yet still won leagues.

That’s sport accept and learn from bad performances but keep the faith in what you have been doing to make your team successful, it’s a really straightforward general point, not sure what amusing about it ?
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How is one supposed to debate when the opposing argument is built on faith?

Steak Pie hit the nail on the head: positivity is great but sometimes you must adapt to the match situation.
 
smoker said:
How is one supposed to debate when the opposing argument is built on faith?

Steak Pie hit the nail on the head: positivity is great but sometimes you must adapt to the match situation.
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Well think all agree on that last point for this particular match and in general.

As for having faith this regime has more than deserved that since they have took over.

Still continually confused why they haven’t had immense credit for the complete transformation both in style of play and results that have followed.

But like I said yesterday some posters seem absent when we performing exceptionally well
 
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smoker said:
How is one supposed to debate when the opposing argument is built on faith?

Steak Pie hit the nail on the head: positivity is great but sometimes you must adapt to the match situation.
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High class international batsmen are capable of adapting to match situations. Root and Stokes have shown plenty of times in the past they can do this and there is no excuse for them not to. The rest of them have been selected for England because they are very talented stroke players who are perfect for how they want to play. We don't have the likes of Cook, Bell, Trescothick and if we did they would be playing and Bazball wouldn't even be a thing. Our current lot Duckett, Crawley, Pope, Brook don't have good defensive techniques, play with hard hands and in the case of Duckett barely ever leaves a cricket ball and hasn't done all his career. If we had high class test match players capable of great attack when needed and solid defensive technique for long periods then they would be in the team. I'm not meaning to give the team a free pass for shockers like this but I think with the current team they will win spectacularly and lose abysmally. As long as the abysmal ones are rare and we are getting good series results it isnt a massive issue imo. Clearly if these type of results become more frequent then its a different story.
 
chunkyshanhawk53 said:
I don’t think anyone on here doesn’t welcome the positive cricket they’ve played under Stokes

I don’t think anyone on here doesn’t admire the culture that has been created

That’s all great, no one is challenging it as having been great

We are allowed to criticise the excessive arrogance at times, some of the responses to this have been bullshit
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Nail on the head.

Has "Bazball" been very successful? Overall, yes.
Is it entertaining and enjoyable to watch? Yes.
Has it made English Test match cricket go from nigh on unwatchable dirge to enthralling, entertaining, excellent for the game - in this country at least - and thrilling? Yes.
Is it also true that it has empowered the players, made them stand a little bit taller, and let to some fantastic results? Yes.

But it has also led to some f***ing brain-dead cricket. Sport is about the pursuit for excellence, that is at its core.

So when the team not only fall short of excellence, but actually show complete ineptitude, an inability to listen or think or take stock of the situation, and bat like absolute f***ing prats, they deserve to be called out.

And when the team, captain, coach, whoever comes out with cultist, delusional nonsense that belies what we've watched with our own eyes, that deserves to be called out. And, perhaps, needs to be, to allow this England team to grow and improve.


And doing the latter doesn't make you any less fond of the former.
 
TheRey said:
Nail on the head.

Has "Bazball" been very successful? Overall, yes.
Is it entertaining and enjoyable to watch? Yes.
Has it made English Test match cricket go from nigh on unwatchable dirge to enthralling, entertaining, excellent for the game - in this country at least - and thrilling? Yes.
Is it also true that it has empowered the players, made them stand a little bit taller, and let to some fantastic results? Yes.

But it has also led to some f***ing brain-dead cricket. Sport is about the pursuit for excellence, that is at its core.

So when the team not only fall short of excellence, but actually show complete ineptitude, an inability to listen or think or take stock of the situation, and bat like absolute f***ing prats, they deserve to be called out.

And when the team, captain, coach, whoever comes out with cultist, delusional nonsense that belies what we've watched with our own eyes, that deserves to be called out. And, perhaps, needs to be, to allow this England team to grow and improve.


And doing the latter doesn't make you any less fond of the former.
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Wrote precisely what i couldn't be arsed to👏
 
Silly Point said:
Wrote precisely what i couldn't be arsed to👏
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TBF I keep thinking it every time I see certain posters implying that anyone who has a whine as Root scoops to second slip, or Stokes hoiks out to long-on when well set, is a stick-in-the-mud who'd rather go back to the old days, but I just can't be fucked to post it.

But @chunkyshanhawk53 is absolutely bang on and it needs to be backed up.


No-one is saying Bazball is shite and needs to be binned. But saying that, if we want to become the dominant side that Bazballs commanders in chief claim we want to be, then things do need to be ironed out and improved, and it's not blasphemy to point that out.
 
TheRey said:
TBF I keep thinking it every time I see certain posters implying that anyone who has a whine as Root scoops to second slip, or Stokes hoiks out to long-on when well set, is a stick-in-the-mud who'd rather go back to the old days, but I just can't be fucked to post it.

But @chunkyshanhawk53 is absolutely bang on and it needs to be backed up.


No-one is saying Bazball is shite and needs to be binned. But saying that, if we want to become the dominant side that Bazballs commanders in chief claim we want to be, then things do need to be ironed out and improved, and it's not blasphemy to point that out.
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Playing attacking football doesn’t mean you play 2-3-5
 
TheRey said:
TBF I keep thinking it every time I see certain posters implying that anyone who has a whine as Root scoops to second slip, or Stokes hoiks out to long-on when well set, is a stick-in-the-mud who'd rather go back to the old days, but I just can't be fucked to post it.

But @chunkyshanhawk53 is absolutely bang on and it needs to be backed up.


No-one is saying Bazball is shite and needs to be binned. But saying that, if we want to become the dominant side that Bazballs commanders in chief claim we want to be, then things do need to be ironed out and improved, and it's not blasphemy to point that out.
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Sounds very much like the Hull forum atm where anyone who dares criticise the manager and style of play is a whinger who doesn't appreciate the progress we've made. Truth is, on both counts, is it's not bad, but could be so much better (for both my teams)
 
I don’t think there will be, but hope behind closed doors some reflection is occurring given the parallels of this and the Lords ashes test.

To be honest I don’t mind them being blasé about it with the media, as if they said anything about regretting or doubting the approach they took, that would just get spun around not believing in their philosophy etc.
 

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