FFP and ways to get around it.

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Financial FAIR Play.

Well as a Club for crying out for a manager that is allegedly the most corrupt in football and was sacked from his "dream" job within weeks for offering to break financial rules, I suppose looking at the best possible way of committing fraud can only be expected.
 


cbwhu said:
no that's why Derby are in trouble, selling their stadium at an inflated price is against the rules

City did all that before FFP came in (they were bought a year before FFP was implemented, in fact that was the main reason it came in, so the established top sides could stop anyone else gatecrashing their party)
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Are villa getting in bother for it too then?
 
Stevie Freestein II said:
Are meat and potato pies any less illegal?
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ha ha ha

here are the rules if you're having trouble sleeping

4 Examples of Related Party Transactions

4.1 Examples of Related Party Transactions that require a Championship Club to demonstrate the estimated fair value of the transaction include, but are not limited to:

4.1.1 sale of sponsorship rights by a Championship Club to a Related Party;

4.1.2 sale of corporate hospitality tickets and / or sale of the right to use of an executive box, by a Championship Club to a Related Party; and

4.1.3 any transaction with a Related Party whereby goods or services are provided to a Championship Club.

4.2 Examples of Related Party Transactions that must always be excluded from income are:

4.2.1 monies received by a Championship Club from a Related Party as a donation; and

4.2.2 settlement of liabilities on behalf of the Championship Club by a Related Party.

4.3 In effect, contributions from / savings in relation to a Related Party will be treated as Contributions from Equity Participants / Related Party(ies) as further described in Appendix F.

5 Related Party, Related Party Transactions and Fair Value of Related Party Transactions

5.1 A Related Party is a person or entity (or any Associate of that person or entity) that is Interested in the Championship Club (or any member of the Group that is included within the Accounts lodged in accordance with these Rules).

5.2 Interested and Associate shall have the meanings as ascribed to them in Regulations 105.2 to 105.4 inclusive and 106.1 of the Regulations. Regulation 105.5 (holdings of 10% or less held for investment purposes only to be disregarded) shall not apply for the purposes of these Rules.

5.3 In considering each possible relationship, attention is directed to the substance of the relationship and not merely the legal form.

5.4 A Related Party Transaction is a transfer of resources, services or obligations between Related Party(ies), regardless of whether a price has been charged.

5.5 A Related Party Transaction may, or may not, have taken place at fair value. Fair value is the amount for which an asset could be exchanged, or a liability settled, between knowledgeable willing parties in an arm’s length transaction. An arrangement or a transaction is deemed to be ‘not transacted on an arm’s length basis’ if it has been entered into on terms more favourable to either party to the arrangement than would have been obtained if there had been no Related Party relationship.
maybe you could sell the naming right to the stadium and be a team in reed and white stripes playing at the Dell cos that wouldn't be confusing :lol:
 
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This is my worry. We may end up being the richest club in the country but will we be allowed to spend it? It seems to me that the FFP rules were introduced to stop a scenario just like this and keep the "top" clubs at the top. There may be ways round the rules (if Grumpy Old Man could help out here I would trust what he says), but my fear is that this is Sunderland so we'd be sure to get something wrong and be heavily penalised.
Maybe it's just the decades of disappointment that have made me so cynical and I pray that this great news turns out to be just that and we can look forward to a new golden era.
 
cbwhu said:
ha ha ha

here are the rules if you're having trouble sleeping

4 Examples of Related Party Transactions

4.1 Examples of Related Party Transactions that require a Championship Club to demonstrate the estimated fair value of the transaction include, but are not limited to:

4.1.1 sale of sponsorship rights by a Championship Club to a Related Party;

4.1.2 sale of corporate hospitality tickets and / or sale of the right to use of an executive box, by a Championship Club to a Related Party; and

4.1.3 any transaction with a Related Party whereby goods or services are provided to a Championship Club.

4.2 Examples of Related Party Transactions that must always be excluded from income are:

4.2.1 monies received by a Championship Club from a Related Party as a donation; and

4.2.2 settlement of liabilities on behalf of the Championship Club by a Related Party.

4.3 In effect, contributions from / savings in relation to a Related Party will be treated as Contributions from Equity Participants / Related Party(ies) as further described in Appendix F.

5 Related Party, Related Party Transactions and Fair Value of Related Party Transactions

5.1 A Related Party is a person or entity (or any Associate of that person or entity) that is Interested in the Championship Club (or any member of the Group that is included within the Accounts lodged in accordance with these Rules).

5.2 Interested and Associate shall have the meanings as ascribed to them in Regulations 105.2 to 105.4 inclusive and 106.1 of the Regulations. Regulation 105.5 (holdings of 10% or less held for investment purposes only to be disregarded) shall not apply for the purposes of these Rules.

5.3 In considering each possible relationship, attention is directed to the substance of the relationship and not merely the legal form.

5.4 A Related Party Transaction is a transfer of resources, services or obligations between Related Party(ies), regardless of whether a price has been charged.

5.5 A Related Party Transaction may, or may not, have taken place at fair value. Fair value is the amount for which an asset could be exchanged, or a liability settled, between knowledgeable willing parties in an arm’s length transaction. An arrangement or a transaction is deemed to be ‘not transacted on an arm’s length basis’ if it has been entered into on terms more favourable to either party to the arrangement than would have been obtained if there had been no Related Party relationship.
maybe you could sell the naming right to the stadium and be a team in reed and white stripes playing at the Dell cos that wouldn't be confusing :lol:
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Ta.

A possible cunning plan would be to ‘encourage’ a 3rd party to offer to buy the stadium, enter a bidding war, and sell it to yourself for x10 the ‘fair price’ which itself is very subjective.

We could pretend that there are vast reserves of lithium, uranium and gold under our stadium and this would be reflected in the fair value of the land.
 
Stevie Freestein II said:
Ta.

A possible cunning plan would be to ‘encourage’ a 3rd party to offer to buy the stadium, enter a bidding war, and sell it to yourself for x10 the ‘fair price’ which itself is very subjective.

We could pretend that there are vast reserves of lithium, uranium and gold under our stadium and this would be reflected in the fair value of the land.
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trouble is you'll have been listing it's true value in your accounts for years which is where Derby are in trouble as they sold it for double what they themselves say it was worth
 
cbwhu said:
trouble is you'll have been listing it's true value in your accounts for years which is where Derby are in trouble as they sold it for double what they themselves say it was worth
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Ok thanks. My kid plays football with a lot of derby fans so each Saturday I’ve been winding their parents up about the illegal deals.
realnutsport said:
Could we sell him a billion pints? Obviously he doesn't have to drink them all at once.
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A capital idea. I would expect an safc fan/owner/mascot/ball-person to neck them in one, mind.
 
Chucky Puddin said:
ow did Wolves spend so much in the Championship? Or have things changed since then?
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I think it's taken over a 3 year period, you spend big and then get promoted, your revenue increases massively and you are within FFP for the 3 year period. If you don't get promoted then you are a bit fucked.
 
flusheding said:
Set up a box at the stadium where each seat in the box is a special "£100,000 to meet the owner" and then have the new owners just buy them all. Club gets legit sales revenue of 1m+ and no rules have been broken?
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Apart from deliberately and flagrantly circumventing the rules, I cannot see a flaw in this cunning plan...
 
The ways around it are Dell to become the club official PC provider and pay us for the privilege, the clubs official Server provider, and pay us for the privilege, the shirt inner lining sponsor, the paint on the wall sponsor, the official floor sponsor, the north stand scoreboard sponsor, the south stand scoreboard sponsor. Anti-missile netting sponsored by Dell... etc...

Find every way of injecting money into the club's inbound earnings.
 
Julio said:
With Dell being a passive investor there are shit loads of ways of getting round FFP. Dell sponsoring the stadium or shirts being two main ones
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That was my main thought. The Dell Stadium Of Light???
offmenut said:
Can't we do what villa did and the owners buy the stadium for 250 million.

Or what city did and do the words best Sponsership deal, 250 million, sundelland stadium of light, or a shirt deal for 3 billion?
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Think Derby are under investigation for selling their stadium to themselves IIRC.
 
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Mackemjmc said:
That was my main thought. The Dell Stadium Of Light???

Think Derby are under investigation for selling their stadium to themselves IIRC.
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as are Villa

not that much though, Derby sold it for 80m, despite valuing it at 40m in the account which is a breach a ffp rules

I posted eaerlier, City did all that the year before FFP came in


you can't do it now any deal done with a related company above market price is against the FFP rules
 
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