England's batting dilemmas

rentaghost

rentaghost

Striker
I had a canny day at TB yesterday despite the abject performance but it was hard to believe what I was watching at times. As the thread 'the art of the leave' pointed out the absolute need for England players to feel bat on ball and lack of technique in plying defensive shots was quite alarming. Also there is such a lack of certainty throughout the entire batting line up that make things far worse.

Cook - Place uncertain - clearly on the wane and would be dropped if the whole opening issue wasn't such a collective crisis.
Jennings - Place uncertain - Was left out because of a clear technical fault, was brought back and has done nothing to rectify his obvious technical fault.
Root - Clearly a class act but in a perfect world would be batting a place lower
Pope - Place uncertain - Only in so much that he is unproven. Looks a stylish player but it seemed obvious to me that he needs to feel bat on ball as often as possible something he needs to work on.
Bairstow - Not scoring anywhere enough runs while keeping wicket.
Stokes - Not batting well at the moment and a cloud of uncertainty over the ECB discussions.
Buttler - Place uncertain (not by me) however the question the value of having a 'specialist batsman' at number 7 is a valid one.

In short there is only Root, Stokes and Bairstow that should be certain picks in the eyes of most and they all have their own issues effecting their performances. There are some things that must happen now. Buttler being given the gloves and probably Burns being given a go at opening ahead of Jennings for a start. Other thoughts?
 


rentaghost said:
I had a canny day at TB yesterday despite the abject performance but it was hard to believe what I was watching at times. As the thread 'the art of the leave' pointed out the absolute need for England players to feel bat on ball and lack of technique in plying defensive shots was quite alarming. Also there is such a lack of certainty throughout the entire batting line up that make things far worse.

Cook - Place uncertain - clearly on the wane and would be dropped if the whole opening issue wasn't such a collective crisis.
Jennings - Place uncertain - Was left out because of a clear technical fault, was brought back and has done nothing to rectify his obvious technical fault.
Root - Clearly a class act but in a perfect world would be batting a place lower
Pope - Place uncertain - Only in so much that he is unproven. Looks a stylish player but it seemed obvious to me that he needs to feel bat on ball as often as possible something he needs to work on.
Bairstow - Not scoring anywhere enough runs while keeping wicket.
Stokes - Not batting well at the moment and a cloud of uncertainty over the ECB discussions.
Buttler - Place uncertain (not by me) however the question the value of having a 'specialist batsman' at number 7 is a valid one.

In short there is only Root, Stokes and Bairstow that should be certain picks in the eyes of most and they all have their own issues effecting their performances. There are some things that must happen now. Buttler being given the gloves and probably Burns being given a go at opening ahead of Jennings for a start. Other thoughts?
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Good post.

Cook has to stay simply because there is no one else
Buttler getting the gloves is fine by me. He still needs runs (batted well yesterday), but I can’t have a pure batsman at 7.

Burns for Jennings. Clark for Bairstow?
 
I would have moeen back in for rashid. He atleast seems to have a bit more control with the ball and strengthens depth
 
Same old, same old.

Cook - Safe only because of his history and the fact that the other opening position needs sorting first
Jennings - Can have the series for me but needs a score. Can't complain if he's dropped, Burns seems to be the next cab off the rank
Root - Should be back a 4
Pope - Give the youngster time, he looks to have solid technique
Bairstow - Should be back at 7
Stokes - Despite current problems is still an automatic pick
Buttler - Will stay in the side by default (probably safe anyway) taking the gloves off the injured Bairstow

I think I would lean towards the three openers strategy, bring Burns in at 3, Root 4, Pope 5, Stokes 6, Buttler 7.
 
Steak Pie said:
Same old, same old.

Cook - Safe only because of his history and the fact that the other opening position needs sorting first
Jennings - Can have the series for me but needs a score. Can't complain if he's dropped, Burns seems to be the next cab off the rank
Root - Should be back a 4
Pope - Give the youngster time, he looks to have solid technique
Bairstow - Should be back at 7
Stokes - Despite current problems is still an automatic pick
Buttler - Will stay in the side by default (probably safe anyway) taking the gloves off the injured Bairstow

I think I would lean towards the three openers strategy, bring Burns in at 3, Root 4, Pope 5, Stokes 6, Buttler 7.
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Yup, nowt wrong with having an opener type at 3, and if he's successful he can move up.

I never joined in with the Rashid club a couple of weeks ago. Good bowler but unless they are exceptional leggies may be wicket takers but they're are also inconsistent. I'd lean towards bringing Ali back.
 
Steak Pie said:
Same old, same old.

Cook - Safe only because of his history and the fact that the other opening position needs sorting first
Jennings - Can have the series for me but needs a score. Can't complain if he's dropped, Burns seems to be the next cab off the rank
Root - Should be back a 4
Pope - Give the youngster time, he looks to have solid technique
Bairstow - Should be back at 7
Stokes - Despite current problems is still an automatic pick
Buttler - Will stay in the side by default (probably safe anyway) taking the gloves off the injured Bairstow

I think I would lean towards the three openers strategy, bring Burns in at 3, Root 4, Pope 5, Stokes 6, Buttler 7.
Click to expand...

Good post. I wasn't indicated Pope should be under threat just that his inexperience at test level is one factor in collective batting line up that has very little certainty about it. He looks very classy and hopefully he will be a good learner.

I don't mind the 3 opener option in principle its just we don't have even one opener worthy of a place at the moment. I would love to see Jennings score big next dig and not get out offering the outside edge but I fear if he hasn't learned to address that now after being dropped it doesn't bode well for him.
 
rentaghost said:
I had a canny day at TB yesterday despite the abject performance but it was hard to believe what I was watching at times. As the thread 'the art of the leave' pointed out the absolute need for England players to feel bat on ball and lack of technique in plying defensive shots was quite alarming. Also there is such a lack of certainty throughout the entire batting line up that make things far worse.

Cook - Place uncertain - clearly on the wane and would be dropped if the whole opening issue wasn't such a collective crisis.
Jennings - Place uncertain - Was left out because of a clear technical fault, was brought back and has done nothing to rectify his obvious technical fault.
Root - Clearly a class act but in a perfect world would be batting a place lower
Pope - Place uncertain - Only in so much that he is unproven. Looks a stylish player but it seemed obvious to me that he needs to feel bat on ball as often as possible something he needs to work on.
Bairstow - Not scoring anywhere enough runs while keeping wicket.
Stokes - Not batting well at the moment and a cloud of uncertainty over the ECB discussions.
Buttler - Place uncertain (not by me) however the question the value of having a 'specialist batsman' at number 7 is a valid one.

In short there is only Root, Stokes and Bairstow that should be certain picks in the eyes of most and they all have their own issues effecting their performances. There are some things that must happen now. Buttler being given the gloves and probably Burns being given a go at opening ahead of Jennings for a start. Other thoughts?
Click to expand...

Clarke and Gubbins in for me.

People keep saying Gubbins has a vulnerability against spin, but he knows how to graft against seam - and that's where we keep f***ing it up.

Clarke should have come in before Pope - been through tougher spells and come out. Will both have to play now because of Bairstow injury.
 
rentaghost said:
I had a canny day at TB yesterday despite the abject performance but it was hard to believe what I was watching at times. As the thread 'the art of the leave' pointed out the absolute need for England players to feel bat on ball and lack of technique in plying defensive shots was quite alarming. Also there is such a lack of certainty throughout the entire batting line up that make things far worse.

Cook - Place uncertain - clearly on the wane and would be dropped if the whole opening issue wasn't such a collective crisis.
Jennings - Place uncertain - Was left out because of a clear technical fault, was brought back and has done nothing to rectify his obvious technical fault.
Root - Clearly a class act but in a perfect world would be batting a place lower
Pope - Place uncertain - Only in so much that he is unproven. Looks a stylish player but it seemed obvious to me that he needs to feel bat on ball as often as possible something he needs to work on.
Bairstow - Not scoring anywhere enough runs while keeping wicket.
Stokes - Not batting well at the moment and a cloud of uncertainty over the ECB discussions.
Buttler - Place uncertain (not by me) however the question the value of having a 'specialist batsman' at number 7 is a valid one.

In short there is only Root, Stokes and Bairstow that should be certain picks in the eyes of most and they all have their own issues effecting their performances. There are some things that must happen now. Buttler being given the gloves and probably Burns being given a go at opening ahead of Jennings for a start. Other thoughts?
Click to expand...

Buttler should have given the gloves a while ago, however apparently Bairstow likes to keep wicket, so the selection policy is based off what a certain person likes to do, rather than what best for the team.
 
chunkylover53 said:
Or you play Bairstow at 7, where he has been excellent, and beef up the batting.
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He's ranked number 9 in the world. As a batsman.

Two things here: either he stays at five, keeps the gloves and we drop Buttler.

Or Buttler gets the gloves. I don't think Buttler can be picked as a batsman alone at number seven.

Modern Ali just hit a very opportune ton against Yorkshire, so maybe they'll bring him in for Rashid.
 
Comeback_Kenwyne said:
He's ranked number 9 in the world. As a batsman.

Two things here: either he stays at five, keeps the gloves and we drop Buttler.

Or Buttler gets the gloves. I don't think Buttler can be picked as a batsman alone at number seven.

Modern Ali just hit a very opportune ton against Yorkshire, so maybe they'll bring him in for Rashid.
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I don’t disagree with a word of that
 
chunkylover53 said:
Or you play Bairstow at 7, where he has been excellent, and beef up the batting.
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You could, but that would mean leaving a game changer out of the side (Buttler) for a new untried batsman, and lets be honest there is not many outstanding batsman knocking the door down in county cricket at the moment.

I would go with Bairstow higher as well, as having your second best batsman that low could mean he ends up not out for not many stranded with the tail which would be terrible imo.

Look at our first innings in this match Buttler stranded with the tail at 7, would we want that to happen to someone as good as Bairstow?
 
Comeback_Kenwyne said:
He's ranked number 9 in the world. As a batsman.

Two things here: either he stays at five, keeps the gloves and we drop Buttler.

Or Buttler gets the gloves. I don't think Buttler can be picked as a batsman alone at number seven.

Modern Ali just hit a very opportune ton against Yorkshire, so maybe they'll bring him in for Rashid.
Click to expand...
He also took a couple of wickets.

I dunno. I find all of this Buttler vs Bairstow all beside the point. The problem is higher up the order and it has been for years. And why did he selectors bring in another batsman in for the already over-crowded middle order when they could have selected Burns into the top order.
 
rentaghost said:
Good post. I wasn't indicated Pope should be under threat just that his inexperience at test level is one factor in collective batting line up that has very little certainty about it. He looks very classy and hopefully he will be a good learner.

I don't mind the 3 opener option in principle its just we don't have even one opener worthy of a place at the moment. I would love to see Jennings score big next dig and not get out offering the outside edge but I fear if he hasn't learned to address that now after being dropped it doesn't bode well for him.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know what you were saying with Pope. If there was a natural number 3 putting his hands up then fine (Livingstone is done for the season with his thumb), but I can't see one anywhere. Jennings has played some superb innings for Lancs this year but just can't seem make the step up, he's running out of chances.

For the last couple of years we've had the 6/7/8 powerhouse of Ben/Jonny/Modern to bail the top order out, but now that's gone it's just highlighting the problems. I'd be tempted to restore it (injury notwithstanding).
 

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