England XI for the Summer

Parkside said:
Not so sure that 8 for 2 was a norm. If it was I'd find 2 openers who'd play the ball on it's merits.

The solution is to have a balance between red and white ball cricket enabling players to become 2 dimensional. Quick fire 40s or 50s don't win 5 day games.
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Good luck with that. I don't know if you have realised but we have been trying to do that since Cook's later years. We have tried about 15 and the most successful was Rory Burns. Jennings, Burns, Stoneman, Lees, Lyth Sibley, Robson, Hameed and i'm sure there's others I have missed. All mid 20 averages, all with failures and many back in county cricket worse than they ever were before. They have been our cream of the crop.
 
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rentaghost said:
Good luck with that. I don't know if you have realised but we have been trying to do that since Cook's later years. We have tried about 15 and the most successful was Rory Burns. Jennings, Burns, Stoneman, Lees, Lyth Sibley, Robson, Hameed and i'm sure there's others I have missed. All mid 20 averages, all with failures and many back in county cricket worse than they ever were before. They have been our cream of the crop.
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As I've said it's the imbalance between white and red ball cricket and it's scheduling that's the problem. I can assure you that I fully realise the historical issue and the touch of sarcasm doesn't enhance your argument.. Not so sure that quick fire 50s and out is the panacea which I think MC Cullum is realising.
 
Voice of fair play said:
Player for player Australia have much better side than us, and don’t think we got enough recognition for the way we stood toe to toe to them in the summer and very unlucky not to win
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Seen you throw this out a few times now.

Alex Carey is rubbish, Mitch Marsh and Travis Head are average at best, Cam Green hadn't done much at that point, Warner and Kharwaja both had huge question marks against them and both have poor records in England, Nathan Lyon only bowled three innings, Scott Boland and whoever that other spinner was have no international chops.

We were favourites in that series, you're trying to rewrite history.
 
Steak Pie said:
Seen you throw this out a few times now.

Alex Carey is rubbish, Mitch Marsh and Travis Head are average at best, Cam Green hadn't done much at that point, Warner and Kharwaja both had huge question marks against them and both have poor records in England, Nathan Lyon only bowled three innings, Scott Boland and whoever that other spinner was have no international chops.

We were favourites in that series, you're trying to rewrite history.
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No one is rewriting history they were and are the worlds test champions and the best test team in the world bar none
 
Steak Pie said:
Seen you throw this out a few times now.

Alex Carey is rubbish, Mitch Marsh and Travis Head are average at best, Cam Green hadn't done much at that point, Warner and Kharwaja both had huge question marks against them and both have poor records in England, Nathan Lyon only bowled three innings, Scott Boland and whoever that other spinner was have no international chops.

We were favourites in that series, you're trying to rewrite history.
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That’s just not the case and nonsense tbh Kharwaja for example was in great form coming into that series, they were world champions and many people on the threads at the time were saying they had a better side and better team player for player so it’s not rewriting history at all as that was the case

Hazelwood, Cummins, Starc and Lyon much better balanced attack.

Their top 4 batsman much more established and experienced.

Before that series you could have argued Stokes and Root would have got in their side not many more.
 
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rentaghost said:
No one is rewriting history they were and are the worlds test champions and the best test team in the world bar none
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And yet we were favourites to beat them last summer. Different story down under of course, but at home they are not 'player for player a much better side than us'.

There seems to be something going on here, where England are being portrayed as a bunch of plucky underdogs squeezing the very best out of their limited ability.

Now India is a tough place to go, so they can be given a bit of slack (despite a poor series where we've taken two of our all-time biggest wallopings) but at home we should be looking to win everytime against anyone. And we didn't.
 
Voice of fair play said:
That’s just not the case and nonsense tbh Kharwaja for example was in great form coming into that series, they were world champions and many people on the threads at the time were saying they had a better side and better team player for player so it’s not rewriting history at all as that was the case

Hazelwood, Cummins, Starc and Lyon much better balanced attack.

Their top 4 batsman much more established and experienced.

Before that series you could have argued Stokes and Root would have got in their side not many more.
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Did their front line spinner Lyon a get injured and out of the series but that seem to. be glossed over? Smith, Warner and Labusachgne were certainly past their best and we did have home advantage.And there was a questionable change of ball issue in one test. But let's not let facts spoil the argument
 
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Parkside said:
Did their front line spinner Lyon a get injured and out of the series but that seem to. be glossed over? Smith, Warner and Labusachgne were certainly past their best and we did have home advantage.And there was a questionable change of ball issue in one test. But let's not let facts spoil the argument
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f***ing hell man but for two days rain we would beat the world champions in a brilliant entertaining and terrific test series.

Absolutely destroyed them in that rained off test.

Yet people still want to put a negative spin on it!!

Lyon out only point I agree with but at least he played games,our first choice spinner ruled out of all series
 
Steak Pie said:
And yet we were favourites to beat them last summer. Different story down under of course, but at home they are not 'player for player a much better side than us'.

There seems to be something going on here, where England are being portrayed as a bunch of plucky underdogs squeezing the very best out of their limited ability.

Now India is a tough place to go, so they can be given a bit of slack (despite a poor series where we've taken two of our all-time biggest wallopings) but at home we should be looking to win everytime against anyone. And we didn't.
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I checked that favourites statement up because it just didn’t ring true. Oddschecker before the Ashes had it as Aus 10/11 Eng 13/5 and Draw 5/1. It was a great series and we played well against an excellent side. In contrast I think we have been poor out there in India, pitches were fair, they were missing a few and we underperformed imo
 
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Voice of fair play said:
f***ing hell man but for two days rain we would beat the world champions in a brilliant entertaining and terrific test series.

Absolutely destroyed them in that rained off test.

Yet people still want to put a negative spin on it!!

Lyon out only point I agree with but at least he played games,our first choice spinner ruled out of all series
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You don't agree that home advantage is massive in test cricket nowadays?
You don't agree that those 3 batsmen aren't the force they were?
You don't agree that ball change worked significantly to England's advantage?
.
 
Parkside said:
You don't agree that home advantage is massive in test cricket nowadays?
You don't agree that those 3 batsmen aren't the force they were?
You don't agree that ball change worked significantly to England's advantage?
.
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Aus were / are WTC going into that series and were favourites with every bookies as low as 8/13 with some.

The ball change at Headingley worked massively in the Aussies favour but we didn’t make a fuss - just accepted it and won the game.
 
rentaghost said:
Aus were / are WTC going into that series and were favourites with every bookies as low as 8/13 with some.

The ball change at Headingley worked massively in the Aussies favour but we didn’t make a fuss - just accepted it and won the game.
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Aussies did retain the ashes?
Aye,hard luck lads?
 
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