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Do you ever worry?


All depends on what you want as a fan. Do you want it to be all lovey dovey and kumbaya with little to no success or a bit of a prickly relationship between ownership and fanbase with the chance of actually doing something? Not that both are mutually exclusive to each other mind. Upto you what you feel if and when that time comes.
 
To me KLD doesn't come across as your bog standard club owner, he's a rich kid who grew up with and loves the sport, has players amongst his closest friends etc. There's a side to things that I know fuck all about obviously but since taking over, KLD seems to me to have the genuine best interests of the traditions of the club at heart. Although if he ever does decide to sell, then aye, shit could hit the fan
 
Chewit said:
That type of attitude is why the country is in such a mess.

Liverpool fans reacted to price incurred in a way which made the club U turn.

Lambs to the slaughter
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I think you’ve misunderstood me.

Liverpool fans could fix it, so they did it, and therefore there was no point worrying, there’s a difference between worrying and doing.

“This is why the countrys a mess” man, what’s the point of worrying about something you have no control over.

Concerned about poverty? Worried about it? Go give money to a homeless man or do some volunteering? It’s a more positive phrase than I think you’ve realised.

Feel like you can’t affect enough change on your own? Persuade others to see your perspective. Worrying about it is no use.
 
No.

Football has been a business since the 1860s. The more dangerous owners are the ones who don't realise this- like Short was for us or the Saudis. Rich people just looking for prestige. They get bored.

Murray understood we had to be sustainable, as does the current club hierarchy. KLD really focusses on making the club work as a thing in itself, without just pumping in cash. This shows a much greater level of care for the club than a certain Texan billionaire did.

The selling on thing isn't really here nor there, if they bought a football club to sell it, then they are in the wrong industry.

I live abroad so you don't care what I think, but I did just publish a book chapter on a history of British and Argentine football- and I'm happy to contextualise the question
 
RTGAdmin said:
I think we already have in reality. Its a huge business run by foreigners with lots of foreign players.
The pre-match experience in the Stadium is very much choreographed.

That isn't what I grew up supporting.

It doesn't mean I don't enjoy following SAFC anymore though and the football this last season has been a joy to watch.

We as supporters will be around a lot longer than any owners, so even though in reality its a massive commercial business it will always be "our club".
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Pre-match may be choreographed but it has much more SAFC identity than it has basically in my lifetime. The lighthouse, Xhaka speech, DOTK-RTG, then WMS, it's much better than anything since the days when players would just run straight out the tunnel.
 
the sleeping giant said:
I think this is a really good post from the OP and I hope, as a fanbase, we can always ask such questions of an ownership group who've stated their priority is to put the community of Sunderland at the heart of everything they do.

I recall similar questions being asked in 2000-2001, i.e. who are we actually competing with because surely we don't really want to be like Man United, who were winning everything but had already lost their identity and seen disenfranchised long-term fans go off and form their own clubs.

At that point we were riding high with sell-outs and thinking we were going to break the top 5, but then 4-5 years later - after 2 seasons back in the Championship, we put out a team that absolutely stunk out the PL and was one of the most depressing seasons ever.

So we can, of course, enjoy this magic carpet ride but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have one eye on where we're heading. The transition from Murray to Drumaville, to Short, to Donald, to KLD has seen vastly different mindsets and approaches. They come and go with their business plans and 'vision' but as supporters we'll all (I hope) be here for a good while longer, regardless.

I like the noises from the club that say 'we are Sunderland, we have our own identity' as I think that's the only way to be, however that alone creates a challenge given what has happened at the other clubs mentioned. But KLD deserves the chance to show that he sees us as more than just a commodity.
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👏
Mackemansj1 said:
This, divvent leave the hooooose a might get hit by a car or a falling piano. No point worrying about something that hasn’t happened may never happen or maybe years away. The way the worlds going on we might not be here 🤣
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Dylan from the Magic Roundabout…. Peace man
scott934 said:
Pre-match may be choreographed but it has much more SAFC identity than it has basically in my lifetime. The lighthouse, Xhaka speech, DOTK-RTG, then WMS, it's much better than anything since the days when players would just run straight out the tunnel.
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The pre match choreography and media activity al put together by two people who now work at Sheffield Wednesday you mean.
TikaTakaTico said:
No.

Football has been a business since the 1860s. The more dangerous owners are the ones who don't realise this- like Short was for us or the Saudis. Rich people just looking for prestige. They get bored.

Murray understood we had to be sustainable, as does the current club hierarchy. KLD really focusses on making the club work as a thing in itself, without just pumping in cash. This shows a much greater level of care for the club than a certain Texan billionaire did.

The selling on thing isn't really here nor there, if they bought a football club to sell it, then they are in the wrong industry.

I live abroad so you don't care what I think, but I did just publish a book chapter on a history of British and Argentine football- and I'm happy to contextualise the question
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I agree with most of what you say, particularly about the more dangerous owners.
But given your perspective why would these guys treat Sunderland fans any differently to Man Utd, Newcastle, Chelsea, etc …
Effectively drive out huge numbers of fans to be replaced by people who can afford to pay more for hospitality/premium seats.

The minute you do that you take a knife to the soul of the club.

Nobody has addressed the question about why German stadiums have more soul than the Premiership…. because the fans who truly care can afford to attend 30 times a season.

We have this chance to protect the thing we have which defines us as a club.

The owners don’t define us, the players don’t, the stadium doesn’t but the football fan community does.

They need more revenue to compete …. If they believe in themselves and their model they need to extend the stadium to leverage more hospitality revenue .

We will see what happens in a years time but I hope the fans will not just watch thousands of their fellow fans be driven out …. It’s not what we are about.
gonzalo said:
I think you’ve misunderstood me.

Liverpool fans could fix it, so they did it, and therefore there was no point worrying, there’s a difference between worrying and doing.

“This is why the countrys a mess” man, what’s the point of worrying about something you have no control over.

Concerned about poverty? Worried about it? Go give money to a homeless man or do some volunteering? It’s a more positive phrase than I think you’ve realised.

Feel like you can’t affect enough change on your own? Persuade others to see your perspective. Worrying about it is no use.
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Ok … I get, don’t fret just act.

I think that’s what Iam doing, encouraging the debate around just how lemming like do we act, and what point we say we won’t accept it.
Rest assured fans will be railroaded with little time to make decisions, when it comes about.
We should be having conversations with the club months before a season ticket purchase decision has to be made.
 
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Chewit said:
Ok … I get, don’t fret just act.

I think that’s what Iam doing, encouraging the debate around just how lemming like do we act, and what point we say we won’t accept it.
Rest assured fans will be railroaded with little time to make decisions, when it comes about.
We should be having conversations with the club months before a season ticket purchase decision has to be made.
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This 100%.

I get you though, having the conversation is an act in of itself if you’re hoping to organise the fans to provide more resistance to the ownership.

In fairness, I read the minutes and I was somewhat disheartened by the lack of challenge the fan associations directed at the ownership, however to what extent do the fans even have agency in England anymore.

So fair enough you might have brought me round.
 
gonzalo said:
This 100%.

I get you though, having the conversation is an act in of itself if you’re hoping to organise the fans to provide more resistance to the ownership.

In fairness, I read the minutes and I was somewhat disheartened by the lack of challenge the fan associations directed at the ownership, however to what extent do the fans even have agency in England anymore.

So fair enough you might have brought me round.
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Next meeting I will be suggesting @Becs to ask the direct question. Are there any plans to premiumise standard seats and in effect black mail fans into paying far more for the same seat with or without the option to move seats.
Given the club may at some point have to move away supporters which flips a load of fans into upper north there could potentially be a massive shift of supporters over a short time, with many being forced out, or relinquishing their ticket.
If so, should they be considering if it contradicts all the positive comments in the minutes about protecting the fan base and the unique atmosphere of the place and how important the ‘traditional’ fans are to the brand.
Any plans to do this need to be months out to give fans proper opportunity to consider their options.
 
contrarian said:
The notion that Murray was some patrician altruistic aw shucks businessman owner of Safc is at odds with the reality of the man and his career
He started with very little and he built a substantial national business . He was ruthless and very very competitive
He built the SOL with grants from local, national and Euro grants ( taxpayer money ) and fair play for him knowing how to ‘work the system ‘. He still walked away with almost 6m trousered which was more than he bought the club for, and in comparison with the much and unfairly maligned Ellis Short it was a steal
Businesses are about extracting the maximum amount of money in as short à possible time from punters. KLD especially knows both the fickleness and passion of football from his family’s experience with Marseilles and he is from à very wealthy business oriented family. He is not from Sunderland
He wants to grow the business and the brand.
Everything else is just background noise
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You can be a competitive business man and be altruistic with the proceeds.
It’s kind of how much of. Victorian Britain worked.

Ellis Short deserved to be maligned for bent an incompetent fool.

This is a community institution first, a brand second and a business third …. Hopefully it stays that way
 
Chewit said:
That type of attitude is why the country is in such a mess.

Liverpool fans reacted to price incurred in a way which made the club U turn.

Lambs to the slaughter
Click to expand...

No offence but you seem to look for the negatives in life, you are getting angry over something that may or may not happen, just enjoy the moment that we are in, SAFCs greatest time in decades!

In what way is it a mess? I love Great Britain and I'm tired of this constant crapping on it by certain media and so-called patriots. You need to travel more and see what a real mess looks like. I look around and see most people are living very comfortable lifestyles, two cars, new build semi, new clothes, expensive gadgets like phones & massive teles, takeaways and restaurants every week, holidays abroad, lowest crime rates since they peaked in early naughties (I live in Hendon & don't even bother putting my house alarm on, I'd have no furniture left in the 90s).

Thank god we don't have to work down the pits getting black lung or in the shipyards breathing in toxic fumes anymore.

One thing I don't like about brits is how much we moan, if it's cold we moan, if it's hot we moan. Cheer up!

RULE SAFC! RULE BRITANNIA! GOD SAVE KYRIL & THE KING!
 
PoolsMackem123 said:
Maybe, maybe not, but the club aren’t the ones developing the local area, building the bridge or paying for the new housing development
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No, but the improvements around the stadium wouldn't be happening if we were still in league one,

The club being successful ties in with the good vibe that's going on in Sunderland now.
 
Chewit said:
Next meeting I will be suggesting @Becs to ask the direct question. Are there any plans to premiumise standard seats and in effect black mail fans into paying far more for the same seat with or without the option to move seats.
Given the club may at some point have to move away supporters which flips a load of fans into upper north there could potentially be a massive shift of supporters over a short time, with many being forced out, or relinquishing their ticket.
If so, should they be considering if it contradicts all the positive comments in the minutes about protecting the fan base and the unique atmosphere of the place and how important the ‘traditional’ fans are to the brand.
Any plans to do this need to be months out to give fans proper opportunity to consider their options.
Click to expand...

I've already raised a concern from a family who sit in P3. They're right next to the hospitality seats. They were concerned that if hospitality is expanded, they might get kicked out of their seats and then where would they go with the rest of the stadium being full.
 
Mboma said:
No, but the improvements around the stadium wouldn't be happening if we were still in league one,

The club being successful ties in with the good vibe that's going on in Sunderland now.
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How do you know that?
Becs said:
I've already raised a concern from a family who sit in P3. They're right next to the hospitality seats. They were concerned that if hospitality is expanded, they might get kicked out of their seats and then where would they go with the rest of the stadium being full.
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You do realise they don’t sell all tickets as season tickets, and therefore the rest of the stadium cannot be full, right?

Whether there are decent seats left is a different debate.
 
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PoolsMackem123 said:
How do you know that?

You do realise they don’t sell all tickets as season tickets, and therefore the rest of the stadium cannot be full, right?

Whether there are decent seats left is a different debate.
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Your point ignores the fact the club have to keep a certain % of tickets back for general sale under EPL regulations.
They sold as many season tickets as they are allowed to, that’s why there is a 15000 waiting list !!!
Becs said:
I've already raised a concern from a family who sit in P3. They're right next to the hospitality seats. They were concerned that if hospitality is expanded, they might get kicked out of their seats and then where would they go with the rest of the stadium being full.
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What was the response Becs?
Wakoro said:
No offence but you seem to look for the negatives in life, you are getting angry over something that may or may not happen, just enjoy the moment that we are in, SAFCs greatest time in decades!

In what way is it a mess? I love Great Britain and I'm tired of this constant crapping on it by certain media and so-called patriots. You need to travel more and see what a real mess looks like. I look around and see most people are living very comfortable lifestyles, two cars, new build semi, new clothes, expensive gadgets like phones & massive teles, takeaways and restaurants every week, holidays abroad, lowest crime rates since they peaked in early naughties (I live in Hendon & don't even bother putting my house alarm on, I'd have no furniture left in the 90s).

Thank god we don't have to work down the pits getting black lung or in the shipyards breathing in toxic fumes anymore.

One thing I don't like about brits is how much we moan, if it's cold we moan, if it's hot we moan. Cheer up!

RULE SAFC! RULE BRITANNIA! GOD SAVE KYRIL & THE KING!
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No offence taken. I wish our government would spend more time considering the consequences of actions.

To many people in society make it up as they go along

Yes there are far worse places in the world but that doesn’t mean we have to accept the reduction of what we are as some kind self flagellation.

All the previous generations of my and the missus family worked in the mines, one actually died in there from a collapse 100 years ago. They made so much sacrifice so we could have the life I have today. Out of respect for them Iam not going to stand by and let self righteous ideologists destroy it in an insidious dismantling of everything built from that sacrifice…. Be that pride, culture, values, beliefs, ethics … particularly around work and family.
 
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