Do you ever worry?

[rentaghost]

That the club ownership is so ruthless, so relentless (to use their own term) to deliver success that

1. They will alienate huge numbers of loyal supporters by a. Pricing them out of the SOL b. Turfing supporters out of their seats they have sat in for decades c. making demands that season ticket holders buy Europe / Domestic Cup Tickets at inflated prices d. Largely remove concession pricing e. Kill the community feel and heritage of the club of generations of families supporting the club.

2. They will sell the club at the first opportunity to make a huge gain leaving us at the mercy of Chelsea like owners

3. Thst this is all about money rather than glory

These are consequences and experiences fans of other clubs have had.

One of the things I always find strange is how the owners don’t ever come out and spell out their vision for the club and how they are going to achieve it.

I watched the interim CEO being interviewed and he said all the right things but did he mean it, are we all a bit gullible lapping up all the positive engaging PR.

They are bloody good, bloody clever and done bloody well. But does anyone worry they might lose their club as they know it.

Which club can we hope we will emulate to have what is success but also ensures that the club is primarily for the people and most importantly not the fan who watches on TV but the one who attends rain , hail and shine.

Bob Murray did everything for the fans, not himself, but delivered limited success.

Is the future for us or despite us ??? Will success be worth it.

Only really interested in views of people who actually go to games … for anyone else what do they care…. And there’s the rub. 40000 people may be sensitive to change but for millions we are just performing seals creating an atmosphere and feeding their entertainment.

Do we feel German football is more wholesome more in tune with supporters?

I think Chelsea, Mags, West Ham, Man Utd have all been destroyed as clubs.
Daft as it might sound I am glad I don’t support Man City, I think it’s lost its soul.
Probably only Liverpool has kept in touch with its roots. Can we do that?

Points 2 and 3 I just have no idea

However point 1 is the biggest area of debate for me. Different fans want different things but I think it will be impossible for the club to get the type of revenue streams needed to compete at this level and in Europe on a regular basis without upsetting a cohort of the fan base that have been loyal to the club through thin and thin. Like many i'm torn between wanting to see the level of success I never thought possible and the club remaining the fantastic community club it has almost always been.

 

[gonzalo]

I learnt along time ago that life is too short to worry about things I can’t control.

Can you fix it?

No?

Then don’t worry.

Yes?

Then don’t worry.

 

[Sandman]

Cannot disagree with the OP but it obviously is looking at the totally negative. There are positives, (Europe this season for example) and the ownership are not stupid and they know (and keep saying) how important it is to keep the supporters and the community on board. They must know we will never be Man U or Arsenal and so must do things a bit differently. Ellis Short admitted to supporters that he realised too late that Safc is a community club, not a world wide brand. Stay positive.

 

[Georgewhitt]

That the club ownership is so ruthless, so relentless (to use their own term) to deliver success that

1. They will alienate huge numbers of loyal supporters by a. Pricing them out of the SOL b. Turfing supporters out of their seats they have sat in for decades c. making demands that season ticket holders buy Europe / Domestic Cup Tickets at inflated prices d. Largely remove concession pricing e. Kill the community feel and heritage of the club of generations of families supporting the club.

2. They will sell the club at the first opportunity to make a huge gain leaving us at the mercy of Chelsea like owners

3. Thst this is all about money rather than glory

These are consequences and experiences fans of other clubs have had.

One of the things I always find strange is how the owners don’t ever come out and spell out their vision for the club and how they are going to achieve it.

I watched the interim CEO being interviewed and he said all the right things but did he mean it, are we all a bit gullible lapping up all the positive engaging PR.

They are bloody good, bloody clever and done bloody well. But does anyone worry they might lose their club as they know it.

Which club can we hope we will emulate to have what is success but also ensures that the club is primarily for the people and most importantly not the fan who watches on TV but the one who attends rain , hail and shine.

Bob Murray did everything for the fans, not himself, but delivered limited success.

Is the future for us or despite us ??? Will success be worth it.

Only really interested in views of people who actually go to games … for anyone else what do they care…. And there’s the rub. 40000 people may be sensitive to change but for millions we are just performing seals creating an atmosphere and feeding their entertainment.

Do we feel German football is more wholesome more in tune with supporters?

I think Chelsea, Mags, West Ham, Man Utd have all been destroyed as clubs.
Daft as it might sound I am glad I don’t support Man City, I think it’s lost its soul.
Probably only Liverpool has kept in touch with its roots. Can we do that?

No.

If I ever worry (Which is rare), I worry about shit I can change, not shit that I can't change.

 

[the sleeping giant]

I think this is a really good post from the OP and I hope, as a fanbase, we can always ask such questions of an ownership group who've stated their priority is to put the community of Sunderland at the heart of everything they do.

I recall similar questions being asked in 2000-2001, i.e. who are we actually competing with because surely we don't really want to be like Man United, who were winning everything but had already lost their identity and seen disenfranchised long-term fans go off and form their own clubs.

At that point we were riding high with sell-outs and thinking we were going to break the top 5, but then 4-5 years later - after 2 seasons back in the Championship, we put out a team that absolutely stunk out the PL and was one of the most depressing seasons ever.

So we can, of course, enjoy this magic carpet ride but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have one eye on where we're heading. The transition from Murray to Drumaville, to Short, to Donald, to KLD has seen vastly different mindsets and approaches. They come and go with their business plans and 'vision' but as supporters we'll all (I hope) be here for a good while longer, regardless.

I like the noises from the club that say 'we are Sunderland, we have our own identity' as I think that's the only way to be, however that alone creates a challenge given what has happened at the other clubs mentioned. But KLD deserves the chance to show that he sees us as more than just a commodity.

 

[Mousehold Mackem]

No.

 

[Mboma]

This point is actively encouraged by the SCR ruleset. You can only spend what you make, so it incentivises teams to absolutely rinse every penny out of their fanbase that they can. Not only does it incentivise it, it makes it absolutely ESSENTIAL to do if you want to succeed. Otherwise you won't compete financially, simple as that really. It's a set of rules designed to benefit the game, but by doing so fucks the fans over.

Large chunks of this have nothing to do with the club mind

Nothing would have been getting done around the club if we weren't on the up like.

 

[wrighty]

ADHD?


You are of course right I just hate the thought we go down the same road as other clubs only to lose our identity


I am as sure as I can be they will be successful…. But does success have to include selling your soul. If they have their heads screwed on they will recognise that the traditional Sunderland fan is their secret weapon, their joker, the magic dust, the drive.

On the selling soul bit I’d hate to think any of the money invested in the club came from some shitty Russian oligarch.

 

[vinegar hill]

That the club ownership is so ruthless, so relentless (to use their own term) to deliver success that

1. They will alienate huge numbers of loyal supporters by a. Pricing them out of the SOL b. Turfing supporters out of their seats they have sat in for decades c. making demands that season ticket holders buy Europe / Domestic Cup Tickets at inflated prices d. Largely remove concession pricing e. Kill the community feel and heritage of the club of generations of families supporting the club.

2. They will sell the club at the first opportunity to make a huge gain leaving us at the mercy of Chelsea like owners

3. Thst this is all about money rather than glory

These are consequences and experiences fans of other clubs have had.

One of the things I always find strange is how the owners don’t ever come out and spell out their vision for the club and how they are going to achieve it.

I watched the interim CEO being interviewed and he said all the right things but did he mean it, are we all a bit gullible lapping up all the positive engaging PR.

They are bloody good, bloody clever and done bloody well. But does anyone worry they might lose their club as they know it.

Which club can we hope we will emulate to have what is success but also ensures that the club is primarily for the people and most importantly not the fan who watches on TV but the one who attends rain , hail and shine.

Bob Murray did everything for the fans, not himself, but delivered limited success.

Is the future for us or despite us ??? Will success be worth it.

Only really interested in views of people who actually go to games … for anyone else what do they care…. And there’s the rub. 40000 people may be sensitive to change but for millions we are just performing seals creating an atmosphere and feeding their entertainment.

Do we feel German football is more wholesome more in tune with supporters?

I think Chelsea, Mags, West Ham, Man Utd have all been destroyed as clubs.
Daft as it might sound I am glad I don’t support Man City, I think it’s lost its soul.
Probably only Liverpool has kept in touch with its roots. Can we do that?

f***ing hell.
It’s going to be a long pre-season

 

[LionL]

I don't think any of us will ever understand fully KLD's intention.

He could have not worked for his entire life and live comfortably off his trust fund. He has all the money you could ever want. At that point you might as well pursue your passions.

He grew up with football and his dad being the owner of Marseille and it's clear he is passionate about football. That to me suggests that he isn't bothered about selling the club and making a profit - it would not make a difference to his life.

 

[the sleeping giant]

I don't think any of us will ever understand fully KLD's intention.

He could have not worked for his entire life and live comfortably off his trust fund. He has all the money you could ever want. At that point you might as well pursue your passions.

He grew up with football and his dad being the owner of Marseille and it's clear he is passionate about football. That to me suggests that he isn't bothered about selling the club and making a profit - it would not make a difference to his life.

In my experience, the pursuit of money in those circles becomes more about ego and influence, than personal lifestyle.

More money equals a wider network and a greater 'authority' and level of respect. It allows even more doors to open and a chance to dine at the very top tables. Exceptional business success, and the halo that comes with it, becomes the obsession.

Everybody wants to rule the world, as a couple of lads from Somerset once told us.

 

[Geppetto]

I’m worried I’m about to be sold by the club quite frankly.

Good point this, it's been raised before. We have class fans so who's to say the club won't cash in and sell us to another club to help improve the atmosphere, providing our relocation costs are paid for of course.

 

[not spavin]

I've got a general nagging feeling that last (this?) season might be the best we'll ever know. The fear is that there's only so much higher we can climb, but there's now a long distance for us to fall.

I love all the players, the manager, have respect for the suits and think we have got every big decision right over the last 18 months. But it's so extremely fragile. We could have a bad window, a player we love could go on strike, we could have a stinking start to the season, the board could make a horrific decision etc. and it all starts to fall apart. So our owners' ruthless streak worries me too, but it's one of many things on a long list of worries.

That said, maybe there's a positive way to look at it. Our last stay in the Premier League ended due to a rot that set it due to our owners not being ruthless enough - from the disgraceful handling of the Adam Johnson situation to the festering drinking culture that haunted successive managers. Far less room for piss-takers in this era.

 

[Marko]

If they wanted to they would have sold the club the moment we got promoted as that was their "first opportunity" to make a 300m + return.

They kept prices frozen for this first season, shows some care about the fans no? Gave people born in the 1700s a free ST didn't they?

If you watch that interview with our acting CEO on the Charlie Methveg podcast, he was on about how general admission tickets bring negliable revenue compared to premium/corporate offerings. I think they'll keep the GA seats reasonable for the premier league, while increasing the fancy seats more.

If you look at clubs revenues general ticket sales are a relatively small part of them, that's why the CEO was on about our expansion and was saying it's only worth doing if we are to have 15% of seats premium, which is comparable to new stadiums like Spurs and Everton. That's where stadiums make real money. THAT'S WONGA!

We need to expand the concourses! more bars! more restaurants! more merch! SAFC everything from microwaves to prophylactics! TV shows! SAFC anime! SAFC soap opera! Stadium museum! Stadium tours! SAFC weddings & funerals with our own SAFC priest! International memberships for Chinese, Japanese, who can't get here but want to be part of us! Give them a badge with a number, first to sign get lower numbers (FOMO STATUS SYMBOL I am not a name I'm a number) Exponential growth, reinvest, sell stadium bricks then remove them without telling anyone! Rinse, repeat! ABC always be closing!

Can't have cost them very much then ! FTM

 

[RTGAdmin]

Other than in football, I know of no other business where customers (which lets be honest is what we are) are as loyal, invested in, or as expectant of answers from the business as we are.

I love my local pub. I drink in it. Im loyal to it. I want it to succeed. But I dont demand the landlord tell me how it's run, or his 5 year plan to make it better for me!

If you didn't like what your local pub did though you would obviously go to another one. Whilst some of the fans we are picking up now could probably go and follow another club, there is no way the majority of us could do that. The only way that would ever happen was if the club/business went completely mad and the supporters formed a new club a bit like FC United of Manchester.

 

[Chewit]

That the club ownership is so ruthless, so relentless (to use their own term) to deliver success that

1. They will alienate huge numbers of loyal supporters by a. Pricing them out of the SOL b. Turfing supporters out of their seats they have sat in for decades c. making demands that season ticket holders buy Europe / Domestic Cup Tickets at inflated prices d. Largely remove concession pricing e. Kill the community feel and heritage of the club of generations of families supporting the club.

2. They will sell the club at the first opportunity to make a huge gain leaving us at the mercy of Chelsea like owners

3. Thst this is all about money rather than glory

These are consequences and experiences fans of other clubs have had.

One of the things I always find strange is how the owners don’t ever come out and spell out their vision for the club and how they are going to achieve it.

I watched the interim CEO being interviewed and he said all the right things but did he mean it, are we all a bit gullible lapping up all the positive engaging PR.

They are bloody good, bloody clever and done bloody well. But does anyone worry they might lose their club as they know it.

Which club can we hope we will emulate to have what is success but also ensures that the club is primarily for the people and most importantly not the fan who watches on TV but the one who attends rain , hail and shine.

Bob Murray did everything for the fans, not himself, but delivered limited success.

Is the future for us or despite us ??? Will success be worth it.

Only really interested in views of people who actually go to games … for anyone else what do they care…. And there’s the rub. 40000 people may be sensitive to change but for millions we are just performing seals creating an atmosphere and feeding their entertainment.

Do we feel German football is more wholesome more in tune with supporters?

I think Chelsea, Mags, West Ham, Man Utd have all been destroyed as clubs.
Daft as it might sound I am glad I don’t support Man City, I think it’s lost its soul.
Probably only Liverpool has kept in touch with its roots. Can we do that?

Points 2 and 3 I just have no idea

However point 1 is the biggest area of debate for me. Different fans want different things but I think it will be impossible for the club to get the type of revenue streams needed to compete at this level and in Europe on a regular basis without upsetting a cohort of the fan base that have been loyal to the club through thin and thin. Like many i'm torn between wanting to see the level of success I never thought possible and the club remaining the fantastic community club it has almost always been.

The solution is simple … build to protect and accommodate.

 

[SAFC Wilks]

After the absolute shit we’ve had to endure for the past decade or so, I’m not worried at all.

 

[Chewit]

Not only is the OP a "glass half empty" type of lad but his particular glass has got a bad crack on the rim and shards of glass in the bottom so he has to chuck what's left of his drink.

if your going to use anologies …. When you see a storm on the horizon do you assume that you are different to everyone else and you won’t get wet?

There is an inevitability that in one years time thousands of fans will be turfed out of their seats or be required to pay 2/3 times what they do now for their seat.

This is not some Mystic Meg fortune telling this is what has happened to other clubs.

The fan base needs to be ready to say enough is enough and if they need more revenue they need to build extensions to leverage it.
Kicking out huge numbers of fans is not an option …. Only the TV fan could not care

 

[ighty seven]

2. They will sell the club at the first opportunity to make a huge gain leaving us at the mercy of Chelsea like owners

if this is the case we’ll be flogged before a ball is kicked again.

 

[Mackemansj1]

All of the above could happen, but what is the point in worrying about it. It wont change a single thing, and right now we have just qualified for Europe. Just enjoy it. Worrying achieves nothing in reality, it doesnt prepare you any better, and it takes the shine off good times.

If we had a good European run and then ended back down in the championship in 10years time, so be it. Football is a mad game and nothing is guaranteed so just enjoy these moments as they wont last forever

This, divvent leave the hooooose a might get hit by a car or a falling piano. No point worrying about something that hasn’t happened may never happen or maybe years away. The way the worlds going on we might not be here