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County Cricket 2025

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Voice of fair play said:
I didn’t say they would have won, I said they would have had more chance of winning if they declared on Saturday night rather than batting on Sunday morning?

I really can’t see how that can be disputed?

Or why they needed to bat on soo long there was no reason too?
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You don't know that at all though, how do you know that?
 

MustardAndOnions said:
You don't know that at all though, how do you know that?
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Nobody can know it, but it stands to reason the longing you have to bowl a team out the better chance you have.

When a team any team in red ball cricket have a lead over 450 in the first innings, I don’t see any need to push that lead over 500, I don’t see any point in that do you?

A 450 run first innings lead should be more than enough so why bat on and take time out of a game, give yourself as much time as possible to bowl the opposition out?

That’s more than a fair principle to put that view across especially when the opposition has 9 wickets down at the end of the game
 
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chunkyshanhawk53 said:
Leach isn’t going to bowl out Head etc if he can’t bowl out Worcester in 200 overs ;)
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Leach's average against Australia in Australia isnt great tbh.

Rashid probably the only world class spinner we have and he hasnt played test cricket for years.

I don't think Ahmed or Bashir are good enough. Leach is better than both but probably not at the right level we want. He didn't finish them off but he did look dangerous today and much more dangerous than Vaughan.
 
Turner the Cat said:
Leach's average against Australia in Australia isnt great tbh.

Rashid probably the only world class spinner we have and he hasnt played test cricket for years.

I don't think Ahmed or Bashir are good enough. Leach is better than both but probably not at the right level we want. He didn't finish them off but he did look dangerous today and much more dangerous than Vaughan.
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This is the dilemma. Personally, I think a lot of countries and search high and low for like some sort of wonder kid, or someone with a different string to their bow, just instead of picking their best spinner, even if they aren't a world beater

Aussies had it after warne, tried all sorts before they realised Lyon was just their best spinner (he has turned into a brilliant spinner mind but dont think they have believed he would).

I am not all in on Leach, but I think he is a tad underated on here, fully believe we'd have won the Ashes at home if he was fit.
 
The Breen Machine said:
Leach is a much safer bet than Bashir, Ahmed is nowhere near at the moment. I can't understand why England were so keen to move away from Leach tbh.
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I think the rationale for that and answer to your question is that they want more than a safe bet.

They looking for a bit more X factor a more wicket taking spinner for The Ashes, not just a steady eddie which with respect to Leach that what he is as a international cricketer

But the big problem with that is as you correctly say none of them as good as Leach.
 
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Voice of fair play said:
Nobody can know it, but it stands to reason the longing you have to bowl a team out the better chance you have.

When a team any team in red ball cricket have a lead over 450 in the first innings, I don’t see any need to push that lead over 500, I don’t see any point in that do you?

A 450 run first innings lead should be more than enough so why bat on and take time out of a game, give yourself as much time as possible to bowl the opposition out?

That’s more than a fair principle to put that view across especially when the opposition has 9 wickets down at the end of the game
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I don't think anyone saw Worcestershire holding out like that. They looked dead and buried.

Just my personal preference but I'd always try and do the minimum. You've got all the batting bonus points already and at 550 and a lead of 400 over a team that only managed 150 in their first innings I'd put them in to bat near the end of the day, try and wrap it up day 3 and you've got an extra day of rest and job done.
 
Voice of fair play said:
I think the rationale for that and answer to your question is that they want more than a safe bet.

They looking for a bit more X factor a more wicket taking spinner for The Ashes, not just a steady eddie which with respect to Leach that what he is as a international cricketer

But the big problem with that is as you correctly say none of them as good as Leach.
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That's fair enough but Leach is a little more than just a spinner who holds an end up, although with Stokes' ongoing injuries, they arguably need a spinner who can prioritise economy and give the pace bowlers some rest.

Giles did a fine job of that in 2005.
 
Turner the Cat said:
I don't think anyone saw Worcestershire holding out like that. They looked dead and buried.

Just my personal preference but I'd always try and do the minimum. You've got all the batting bonus points already and at 550 and a lead of 400 over a team that only managed 150 in their first innings I'd put them in to bat near the end of the day, try and wrap it up day 3 and you've got an extra day of rest and job done.
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Yeah it’s the principle I believe in why bat on, nothing to be gained for it?
 
Not sure what has happened with Tom Hartley. He was arguably out best bowler in India in 2024 and took more wickets than any other bowler and more than Bashir and Leach combined.

Still only 25. He doesnt seem to get much game time for Lancashire at the moment. He wasnt picked for the game with Middlesex. He looked good when I have seen him play.
 
The Breen Machine said:
That's fair enough but Leach is a little more than just a spinner who holds an end up, although with Stokes' ongoing injuries, they arguably need a spinner who can prioritise economy and give the pace bowlers some rest.

Giles did a fine job of that in 2005.
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Yeah he did, but rightly or wrongly I think that’s how they see Leach as someone who can hold a end up and they want more.

Not saying it right mind but genuinely think that the answer to your original question of why they have moved away from Leach.

Personally I think none of our spinners including Leach are anywhere near good enough and it’s a big problem going forward imo
 
Turner the Cat said:
Not sure what has happened with Tom Hartley. He was arguably out best bowler in India in 2024 and took more wickets than any other bowler and more than Bashir and Leach combined.

Still only 25. He doesnt seem to get much game time for Lancashire at the moment. He wasnt picked for the game with Middlesex. He looked good when I have seen him play.
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He appears to be a white ball specialist, I don't think I've ever seen him named in Lancs' championship XI. I'd argue any spinner could have taken a few wickets on those pitches in India but it is odd he's disappeared seemingly.
Dexter said:
I’d say it was because he can’t bat and can’t field but Bashir is genuinely worse in both aspects.
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You'd think that was their main issue with Leach, but nail on the head with Bashir being worse.
Voice of fair play said:
Yeah he did, but rightly or wrongly I think that’s how they see Leach as someone who can hold a end up and they want more.

Not saying it right mind but genuinely think that the answer to your original question of why they have moved away from Leach.

Personally I think none of our spinners including Leach are anywhere near good enough and it’s a big problem going forward imo
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Agree there is a wider problem, no one is hugely impressing me that is coming through at the moment and I think most aim their game at the shorter formats given the financial rewards and usual success of spinners in those games.
 
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Has anyone seen the Doliveira LBW in the Som v Worcs game. It is one of the worst I have ever seen comparable to the one asked Stewart got in Sri Lanka. Umpire should be sacked on the spot
 
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rentaghost said:
Has anyone seen the Doliveira LBW in the Som v Worcs game. It is one of the worst I have ever seen comparable to the one asked Stewart got in Sri Lanka. Umpire should be sacked on the spot.
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It's a terrible decision, smacks of an umpire totally buckling under the pressure of a big appeal.
 
The Breen Machine said:
He appears to be a white ball specialist, I don't think I've ever seen him named in Lancs' championship XI. I'd argue any spinner could have taken a few wickets on those pitches in India but it is odd he's disappeared seemingly.
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It's a fair point but then in the white ball series in India this year, those pitches were ideal for spin and we really didnt take advantage of it. Rashid was our highest wicket taker and the Indian spinners hurt us yet we took Ahmed then didnt play him and didnt take Hartley who did so well in 2024 in India or Leach.

Tbh our tactics in white ball have been terrible for ages this being one example.
 
rentaghost said:
Has anyone seen the Doliveira LBW in the Som v Worcs game. It is one of the worst I have ever seen comparable to the one asked Stewart got in Sri Lanka. Umpire should be sacked on the spot
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so bad

side note, one of my fav CC him, so resourceful, always wondered how he would do at a bigger county
Turner the Cat said:
It's a fair point but then in the white ball series in India this year, those pitches were ideal for spin and we really didnt take advantage of it. Rashid was our highest wicket taker and the Indian spinners hurt us yet we took Ahmed then didnt play him and didnt take Hartley who did so well in 2024 in India or Leach.

Tbh our tactics in white ball have been terrible for ages this being one example.
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agree
 
Bashir against 2nd div Leicestershire in a 10 wicket defeat

Bashir22.0292090001504.18
One to watch is Jack Carson at Sussex, was trainin with squad before Bashir, and took 5 wickets in div 1 this week (in the game)
 
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