Carillion sells contracts.

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Pop said:
No they shouldn’t but it’s not always the fault of the employer if they are.



So if your the FD of a company which has a final salary scheme that suddenly loses loads of assets due to a poor investment strategy, you are saying it’s the FD’s responsibility to right that even if you aren’t a pension scheme trustee?
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There has to be communication between the company and the fund, and if the fund needs more money from the company to start to address the pension deficit for that company so be it.....how many more billions do you think that schemes can lose before pension guarentees from the ppf will have to be dropped to address all these failing schemes?

As for carillion in particular, we shall no doubt see in the fullness of time if they were deferring pension contributions when they were making profit
 
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Boz33 said:
There has to be communication between the company and the fund, and if the fund needs more money from the company to start to address the pension deficit for that company so be it.....how many more billions do you think that schemes can lose before pension guarentees from the ppf will have to be dropped to address all these failing schemes?
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There is regular communication, there was in the Carillion case.

The number of schemes going into the PPF is falling and has been for years.
 
Pop said:
There is regular communication, there was in the Carillion case.

The number of schemes going into the PPF is falling and has been for years.
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You got a link for that? Also it seems to me that when they do fail the cost of the fail seems to be much higher nowadays....so although if your correct less schemes are failing, it doesn't necessarily mean it's costing less overall if the ones that do fail, fail spectacularly...like carillion
 
Boz33 said:
You got a link for that? Also it seems to me that when they do fail the cost of the fail seems to be much higher nowadays....so although if your correct less schemes are failing, it doesn't necessarily mean it's costing less overall if the ones that do fail, fail spectacularly...like carillion
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Small companies failing isn’t big news, why would every scheme going into the PPF make national news?

You said earlier deficits don’t creep up overnight
Biggest U.K. Companies Face Defined-Benefit-Pension Deficit

There you go, royal Dutch’s deficit grew from 3 billion to 6 billion in a year.
 
Pop said:
Small companies failing isn’t big news, why would every scheme going into the PPF make national news?

You said earlier deficits don’t creep up overnight
Biggest U.K. Companies Face Defined-Benefit-Pension Deficit

There you go, royal Dutch’s deficit grew from 3 billion to 6 billion in a year.
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Who says it should make national news, it's you that's saying the number of schemes going to ppf is falling not me...
Also, I think there's a slight difference between carillion going massively in the hole compared to the vale of the company, and royal shell which will no doubt be worth hundreds of billions and have the assets to address any shortfall comfortably
 
Wilfy said:
Another one too big, too quick?
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O'Rourke piled all his money and lumped in massively in off site manufacturing and precast and hasn't made it pay. He's negotiating 14 day payment terms for himself by offering commercial discount to Client and then downstream putting supply chain on elongated payment terms. Seems to be desperate for cash and still hasn't filed his accounts for last year...not one I'd be too sad to see go for a few reasons but I do like Ray O'Rourke himself.

Interserve shares continuing to crumble as well.
 
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For the ex Carillion contracts which are now being delivered by other FM companies I wonder if the same fee/prices are being used, or if an uplift is possible. It seems v likely Carillion has gone in far too low the majority of the time
 
Billy Fish said:
Laing O'Rourke will be next to hit the news.
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Wrong - watch Kier Group - oh and Interserve!

Kier are selling parts of its business that are profitable to make money available.

Inter serve at shite and couldn’t run a raffle
 
Most of the ones I worked with have jobs now which is good news

Defoe said:
Wrong - watch Kier Group - oh and Interserve!

Kier are selling parts of its business that are profitable to make money available.

Inter serve at shite and couldn’t run a raffle
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A few of Carillion people have gone to Kier anarl
 
Billy Fish said:
O'Rourke piled all his money and lumped in massively in off site manufacturing and precast and hasn't made it pay. He's negotiating 14 day payment terms for himself by offering commercial discount to Client and then downstream putting supply chain on elongated payment terms. Seems to be desperate for cash and still hasn't filed his accounts for last year...not one I'd be too sad to see go for a few reasons but I do like Ray O'Rourke himself.

Interserve shares continuing to crumble as well.
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Never had much to do with O’Rourke apart from when I was doing some work for Emcor ten years ago. Did have an interview for Crown House but the bloke interviewing me was a reet dick.

the boot said:
Can't wait for me £50 to land @Wilfy @Boris Bear i will definitely give it to a charity of my choice. Probs the Conservative party
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We’ve got 11 months for that building to be finished man.

box2box said:
For the ex Carillion contracts which are now being delivered by other FM companies I wonder if the same fee/prices are being used, or if an uplift is possible. It seems v likely Carillion has gone in far too low the majority of the time
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Don’t know about the other FM company contracts but the bits that have been taken back in House by the government are negotiating preferential payment terms with suppliers.
 
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Defoe said:
Wrong - watch Kier Group - oh and Interserve!

Kier are selling parts of its business that are profitable to make money available.

Inter serve at shite and couldn’t run a raffle
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O'Rourke has already sold all his profitable bits off. Australia went a couple of years ago and the profitable precast parts he had went last year leaving just his white elephant at Worksop.

All he has left of value is Select Plant but he can let the construction arm fold and keep Select as his own pension pot with all the asset value of the crane fleets.

Wilfy said:
Never had much to do with O’Rourke apart from when I was doing some work for Emcor ten years ago. Did have an interview for Crown House but the bloke interviewing me was a reet dick.


Crown House was full of them, generally an obnoxious group of people to work with
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Reading today that an incoming carillion FD highlighted some odd looking accounting practices at the end of 2016 that were discussed and minuted at board meeting. The board didn't consider a problem, although did ask their external auditors to 'review again their 2016 accounts' , they concurred with the the carillion board assessment

Who would have thought it, eh ?........
 
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