• The first stage of the forum upgrades has now been completed but they remain in a degraded state and are still being worked on.
    Please read this thread for more details.
    New user registrations are currently disabled.

Blaming Ellis is a bit Mag-esque

Status
Not open for further replies.

Brian Griffin said:
Firstly, regardless of whether or not you like, the club made a decision that AJ was innocent until proven guilty. He lied to them. Regardless of what 'evidence' they saw they were never going to fire him,

Secondly, that's what football is about - the same way Leeds have been laughed at, the Mag, Blackburn....etc etc

And world class players? Are you insane?

Bent
Gyan
AJ
Fletcher
Wellbeck
Rose
Alonso
Pickford
Henderson

Need I go on....
Click to expand...

None of them are world class footballers.
 
Brian Griffin said:
In your opinion.

I agree it's a disaster to be where we are - but, there's so many people on this board who have wanted the likes of Cattermole and O'Shea out - they'll now have that opportunity.

Under Short you've also:

Signed worldclass players - the likes of who we would never have signed without Short - Gyan, Bent, Johnson etc

Been to a cup final.

We were also the longest (or possibly second longest) serving PL team - excluding those who had never been relegated.

It hasn't all been bad.
Click to expand...

Of course it's my opinion. That's the whole point of a public forum.

Whilst we have no divine right to be at the top table, relegation to division three for a club with our history and infrastructure is inexcusable. I don't understand the relevance of the Cattermole and O'Shea reference.

Apart from the fact that you need to review your definition of world class, Short wasn't unique in funding the odd marquee signing but the trick is to ensure that you don't end up in hock years down the line.

Similarly with the cup final and 10 years in the top flight. Both hollow victories in our current plight, and totally avoidable if the man had had the first clue how to run a football club.

Any clown with a bit of cash can buy a football club, totally fuck it up and move on.

Owners are temporary and the key question should always be - did they leave the club in a better position than when they found it?

The answer to that is writ large in the unedifying sight of SAFC being hawked around to all and sundry like a distressed company - ironically the sort of purchase that hitherto had been Short's speciality.

It hasn't been all bad - it's been a f***ing shambles.
 
Mackem00 said:
Can't play videos at work. What does he say there?

Just post the link where it says the club still owes money and we can easily clear this up tbh.
Click to expand...



Dunno what he say's!


The club currently have debts divided between two places - one being the bank and the other being to
You must be logged on to see external links
himself.

We understand that Short will write off the debt still owed to him as part of the £50million sale to any potential buyer.

However, the bank debt would still exist and either have to be taken on by a new owner or paid off - making the overall price of purchasing
You must be logged on to see external links
debt-free a lot higher than £50m.

Exactly how much more is not known because it is not clear how high the club’s debt stands at currently.

The most recent club accounts were released in July 2016 and showed the club’s overall debt to be at £136.6m - £67.9m of which was owed to the bank. What’s more, they were paying £8.1m a year in interest on the debt divided between the bank and Short.




You must be logged on to see external links
 
Last edited:
Super Colin Todd said:
Dunno what he say's!


The club currently have debts divided between two places - one being the bank and the other being to
You must be logged on to see external links
himself.

We understand that Short will write off the debt still owed to him as part of the £50million sale to any potential buyer.

However, the bank debt would still exist and either have to be taken on by a new owner or paid off - making the overall price of purchasing
You must be logged on to see external links
debt-free a lot higher than £50m.

Exactly how much more is not known because it is not clear how high the club’s debt stands at currently.

The most recent club accounts were released in July 2016 and showed the club’s overall debt to be at £136.6m - £67.9m of which was owed to the bank. What’s more, they were paying £8.1m a year in interest on the debt divided between the bank and Short.




You must be logged on to see external links
Click to expand...

That link is from February.

Short's statement was yesterday.
 
Pancho said:
That link is from February.

Short's statement was yesterday.
Click to expand...

I understand that but the statement said the Club is now debt-free when we're operating at a loss, didn't mention if the bank loans were paid off in full and who is getting next season's parachute payment.....I know he will write his personal money off but pay off the loans also? Nah!
 
Super Colin Todd said:
Dunno what he say's!


The club currently have debts divided between two places - one being the bank and the other being to
You must be logged on to see external links
himself.

We understand that Short will write off the debt still owed to him as part of the £50million sale to any potential buyer.

However, the bank debt would still exist and either have to be taken on by a new owner or paid off - making the overall price of purchasing
You must be logged on to see external links
debt-free a lot higher than £50m.

Exactly how much more is not known because it is not clear how high the club’s debt stands at currently.

The most recent club accounts were released in July 2016 and showed the club’s overall debt to be at £136.6m - £67.9m of which was owed to the bank. What’s more, they were paying £8.1m a year in interest on the debt divided between the bank and Short.




You must be logged on to see external links
Click to expand...
In the bold bit it says the debt can be paid off. Ellis Short has said the debt has been paid off by him. He said this yesterday. If you are saying he is lying then all you have to do is prove it.

Super Colin Todd said:
I understand that but the statement said the Club is now debt-free when we're operating at a loss, didn't mention if the bank loans were paid off in full and who is getting next season's parachute payment.....I know he will write his personal money off but pay off the loans also? Nah!
Click to expand...
How can you be debt free and still have loans to pay off?
 
Mackem00 said:
In the bold bit it says the debt can be paid off. Ellis Short has said the debt has been paid off by him. He said this yesterday. If you are saying he is lying then all you have to do is prove it.


How can you be debt free and still have loans to pay off?
Click to expand...

As i've said already his very vague statement yesterday say's the Club is debt free....That is not true and means the Club will get next season's 34 million and this summer's player sales with Short walking away with a 160 mill loss, it also didn't mention how much the Club was purchased for!
 
Super Colin Todd said:
I understand that but the statement said the Club is now debt-free when we're operating at a loss, didn't mention if the bank loans were paid off in full and who is getting next season's parachute payment.....I know he will write his personal money off but pay off the loans also? Nah!
Click to expand...

With the caveat that none of us have seen the terms of the deal,including what happens to any future income such as parachute payments, the only thing we have to go on is Short's statement that the club is now debt free. That suggests to me that the debt to SBC has now been satisfied.

In the context of this discussion the fact that the club currently may or may not be making a loss is an irrelevance.

GordonMuchallNo1Fan said:
WUM? not at all. none of those players are world class and weren't when at sunderland.
Click to expand...

Never thought I'd say it but I agree with everything you've posted on this thread.
 
Last edited:
Pancho said:
With the caveat that none of us have seen the terms of the deal,including what happens to any future income such as parachute payments, the only thing we have to go on is Short's statement that the club is now debt free. That suggests to me that the debt to SBC has now been satisfied.

In the context of this discussion the fact that the club currently may or may not be making a loss is an irrelevance.
Click to expand...

That's where the truth will come out.....At present it sounds too good to be true!

He would have been better off giving Moyes 25 million last summer for a promotion push than pay off a 160 mill debt now, losing the lot!
 
Super Colin Todd said:
As i've said already his very vague statement yesterday say's the Club is debt free....That is not true and means the Club will get next season's 34 million and this summer's player sales with Short walking away with a 160 mill loss, it also didn't mention how much the Club was purchased for!
Click to expand...
And all I've asked you to do is prove that. It seems we'll continue to go round in circles till you do that so i'll not bother again til then.
 
Mackem00 said:
And all I've asked you to do is prove that. It seems we'll continue to go round in circles till you do that.
Click to expand...

We need to see the details as there's no way he's paid a 160 million off including the bank. etc!

Your going off a vague statement yesterday and i'm going off the finance facts of the Club!
 
Super Colin Todd said:
We need to see the details as there's no way he's paid a 160 million off including the bank. etc!

Your going off a vague statement yesterday and i'm going off the finance facts of the Club!
Click to expand...
What's vague about the club being debt free for the first time since well before Short took charge?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top