Black Lives Matter

[LUBITSCH]

You see this is what I can’t fathom? Surely there’s isn’t a victory for the oppressed by having tokens in high places just to please people?
I mean by all means if they excel in that particular field then I don’t care what colour or religion these people are, as an example in my life time Barack Obama has to be the best president America has seen!

Go to youtube and watch "Thomas Sowell/Black Wisdom Matters-The Promise Of Black Politicians", it's only eleven minutes long and I think you'll find it interesting.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

What about shame then? If you have pride in those things do you also feel shame for all of the killing, exploitation and interference in other countries business? Or is it just a one way street?

I think you will find that pride is the most needless and weakest foundation you could ever build something on.

“The disesteem and contempt of others is inseparable from pride. It is hardly possible to overvalue ourselves but by undervaluing our neighbors.”

“Pride is a deeply rooted ailment of the soul. The penalty is misery; the remedy lies in the sincere, life-long cultivation of humility, which means true self-evaluation and a proper perspective toward past, present and future.”

“Conceit may puff a man up, but can never prop him up.”

“Conceit (pride) is God’s gift to little men.”

“Conceit is to nature what paint is to beauty; it is not only needless, but it impairs what it would improve.”

Or, to quote Doctor Johnson: "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel".

 

[LUBITSCH]

Or, to quote Doctor Johnson: "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel".

He despised false, self-confessed patriots but admired true patriots.

 

[AndyH]

One example of a black man achieving greatness = racism doesn’t exist.

ps What are you trying to achieve here? What do you want us to conclude?

jumping on my soap box as i'm pissed.


this is always the leftist, sjw style reply, to take something someone says and imply they are saying something completely different.
I have never said racism doesn't exist, all through this thread I have been clear it does.

The point that i have come to conclude is that the negative impact on your life that groups like BLM claim skin colour has is massively wide of the mark.
Also that all the protest and affirmative action that result from these types of campaigns do nothing to reduce racism but they have the opposite effect.

after recent events, the riots, protests, pulling down of statues, the accusations that white people are inherently racist, very few of the racist people will have been converted to none racists but any amount of the none racists will have been converted to racists.

the most oppressed and discriminated group of people of the last 2000 yrs are probably the Jews, they are massively over represented in banking and business, they own the Nobel prizes, maybe it's a help they don't have groups like BLM forcing the notion down their throats that every hurdle they face in life is due to the colour of there skin.

In the UK today I believe there is nothing to prevent a black person from reaching their full potential.
When I see a person of colour i don'e see a black man i just see a man who happens to be black. if i'm interviewing a man for a job i'm interested in what he has to offer not the colour of his skin, i'm interested in is he wearing a cheap suit more than the colour he is born.
What I am sick of is the constant whining from these SJW groups who play the victim card. one dude is black,so f***ing what he probably has a better chance of getting a job than a white did that is fat an ugly but we don't have to put up with a fugly lives matter movement.

 

[Hongkongphooey]

Jesus wept, this thread ffs, love thy brother.

 

[themanagersnot2blame]

jumping on my soap box as i'm pissed.


this is always the leftist, sjw style reply, to take something someone says and imply they are saying something completely different.
I have never said racism doesn't exist, all through this thread I have been clear it does.

The point that i have come to conclude is that the negative impact on your life that groups like BLM claim skin colour has is massively wide of the mark.
Also that all the protest and affirmative action that result from these types of campaigns do nothing to reduce racism but they have the opposite effect.

after recent events, the riots, protests, pulling down of statues, the accusations that white people are inherently racist, very few of the racist people will have been converted to none racists but any amount of the none racists will have been converted to racists.

the most oppressed and discriminated group of people of the last 2000 yrs are probably the Jews, they are massively over represented in banking and business, they own the Nobel prizes, maybe it's a help they don't have groups like BLM forcing the notion down their throats that every hurdle they face in life is due to the colour of there skin.

In the UK today I believe there is nothing to prevent a black person from reaching their full potential.
When I see a person of colour i don'e see a black man i just see a man who happens to be black. if i'm interviewing a man for a job i'm interested in what he has to offer not the colour of his skin, i'm interested in is he wearing a cheap suit more than the colour he is born.
What I am sick of is the constant whining from these SJW groups who play the victim card. one dude is black,so f***ing what he probably has a better chance of getting a job than a white did that is fat an ugly but we don't have to put up with a fugly lives matter movement.

You are being disingenuous with your statement about accepting that racism exists, as you say in the same breath that it doesn’t matter anyway.
You have a very simplistic outlook on things - that people are fully in control of their own destinies and that if people shut up moaning then they would be able to achieve whatever they like. outside influences don’t matter, prejudice is no barrier. They have no one else to blame but themselves. That is an incredibly naive outlook.
The Jewish example is a poor one - the Jews can look back at a history of success and acceptance in business, banking, movies and many other industries - there will be no shortage of Jewish people to help open doors. Part of the oppression of Jews is related to their historic success. White Europeans too have a history of success. Both groups are accepted in circles of power and influence. Black people can look back at their history and see slavery, oppression, colonialism, cheap labour as their starting point.

The second part of your point - how to deal with it, I will probably agree with you on many levels - the hostility will lead to a culture war which will deepen divisions.

You make out in your post that you are a tolerant person who sees no colour,
yet you show no empathy to the situation and put an awful lot of effort into telling black people what they should do, what they shouldn’t do and how they should feel.
I think you need to take your mask off and take a good look in the mirror - your outlook is a big part of the problem.

 

[Thomas Hearns]

You are being disingenuous with your statement about accepting that racism exists, as you say in the same breath that it doesn’t matter anyway.
You have a very simplistic outlook on things - that people are fully in control of their own destinies and that if people shut up moaning then they would be able to achieve whatever they like. outside influences don’t matter, prejudice is no barrier. They have no one else to blame but themselves. That is an incredibly naive outlook.
The Jewish example is a poor one - the Jews can look back at a history of success and acceptance in business, banking, movies and many other industries - there will be no shortage of Jewish people to help open doors. Part of the oppression of Jews is related to their historic success. White Europeans too have a history of success. Both groups are accepted in circles of power and influence. Black people can look back at their history and see slavery, oppression, colonialism, cheap labour as their starting point.

The second part of your point - how to deal with it, I will probably agree with you on many levels - the hostility will lead to a culture war which will deepen divisions.

You make out in your post that you are a tolerant person who sees no colour,
yet you show no empathy to the situation and put an awful lot of effort into telling black people what they should do, what they shouldn’t do and how they should feel.
I think you need to take your mask off and take a good look in the mirror - your outlook is a big part of the problem.

You are being disingenuous with your statement about accepting that racism exists, as you say in the same breath that it doesn’t matter anyway.
You have a very simplistic outlook on things - that people are fully in control of their own destinies and that if people shut up moaning then they would be able to achieve whatever they like. outside influences don’t matter, prejudice is no barrier. They have no one else to blame but themselves. That is an incredibly naive outlook.
The Jewish example is a poor one - the Jews can look back at a history of success and acceptance in business, banking, movies and many other industries - there will be no shortage of Jewish people to help open doors. Part of the oppression of Jews is related to their historic success. White Europeans too have a history of success. Both groups are accepted in circles of power and influence. Black people can look back at their history and see slavery, oppression, colonialism, cheap labour as their starting point.

The second part of your point - how to deal with it, I will probably agree with you on many levels - the hostility will lead to a culture war which will deepen divisions.

You make out in your post that you are a tolerant person who sees no colour,
yet you show no empathy to the situation and put an awful lot of effort into telling black people what they should do, what they shouldn’t do and how they should feel.
I think you need to take your mask off and take a good look in the mirror - your outlook is a big part of the problem.
[/QUOT

What your view on affirmative action as a policy because that’s the elephant in the room?

What your view on affirmative action as a policy because that’s the elephant in the room?

 

[Hulkster]

This is what the Premier League is supporting and forcing into our faces:

You must be logged on to see media items

 

[Billericay Dichio]

This is what the Premier League is supporting and forcing into our faces:

You must be logged on to see media items

I'm outraged. Even though I'm a SAFC supporter and watch Div 1 games when they're on. I still feel it's important that I express my indignation about a league I don't give a shit about.

 

[SAFCDownUnder]

The Jewish example is a poor one - the Jews can look back at a history of success and acceptance in business, banking, movies and many other industries - there will be no shortage of Jewish people to help open doors. Part of the oppression of Jews is related to their historic success. White Europeans too have a history of success. Both groups are accepted in circles of power and influence. Black people can look back at their history and see slavery, oppression, colonialism, cheap labour as their starting point.

Oh my Lord, I can't believe anyone would actually write that - I take it you have heard of the Holocaust where 6 million Jews died? And the Russian pogroms before that, and having been kicked out of just about every country in Europe, including England, during the Middle Ages, and the fact that every neighbouring country to Israel actually wants it wiped off the face of the earth, but they have a history of acceptance!!!! Whatever success the Jews have achieved is despite their history, not because they were privileged.

And taking your second/third points - "White Europeans too have a history of success" - probably true in more recent centuries, though if you'd lived in southern or eastern "white" Europe during the Islamic invasion from the Ottoman Empire, or Genghis Khan, or the Huns, you probably wouldn't have thought "I'm so accepted and successful". And given that the successful White Europeans have really only been involved in Africa since the 1400s, yes often in a negative way for those people, then "slavery, oppression, colonialism, cheap labour" is hardly the historical starting point for black people - they must have had history before the whites came along.

 

[AndyH]

You are being disingenuous with your statement about accepting that racism exists, as you say in the same breath that it doesn’t matter anyway.
You have a very simplistic outlook on things - that people are fully in control of their own destinies and that if people shut up moaning then they would be able to achieve whatever they like. outside influences don’t matter, prejudice is no barrier. They have no one else to blame but themselves. That is an incredibly naive outlook.
The Jewish example is a poor one - the Jews can look back at a history of success and acceptance in business, banking, movies and many other industries - there will be no shortage of Jewish people to help open doors. Part of the oppression of Jews is related to their historic success. White Europeans too have a history of success. Both groups are accepted in circles of power and influence. Black people can look back at their history and see slavery, oppression, colonialism, cheap labour as their starting point.

The second part of your point - how to deal with it, I will probably agree with you on many levels - the hostility will lead to a culture war which will deepen divisions.

You make out in your post that you are a tolerant person who sees no colour,
yet you show no empathy to the situation and put an awful lot of effort into telling black people what they should do, what they shouldn’t do and how they should feel.
I think you need to take your mask off and take a good look in the mirror - your outlook is a big part of the problem.

Taking rubbish mate, i haven't said or implied racism doesn't exist nor have i said it doesn't matter.

Everyone can look back at their history and see slavery and oppression it's doesn't matter what colour you are. Until the good old Brits forced the entire world against it's will to abolish it by force of arms everybody in the world both enslaved and suffered slavery. Nobody saw anything the matter with the concept of slavery it was just the way the world was then.
Everybody in history was oppressed, apart from a tiny minority nobody had fuck all.

I'm pretty sure i didn't tell black people what they should, what they shouldn't do or how they should feel.

All i said is i don't believe skin colour is the barrier that groups like BLM say it is, and that the way they are going on will not help black people.

 

[Shotton axe man]

Taking rubbish mate, i haven't said or implied racism doesn't exist nor have i said it doesn't matter.

Everyone can look back at their history and see slavery and oppression it's doesn't matter what colour you are. Until the good old Brits forced the entire world against it's will to abolish it by force of arms everybody in the world both enslaved and suffered slavery. Nobody saw anything the matter with the concept of slavery it was just the way the world was then.
Everybody in history was oppressed, apart from a tiny minority nobody had fuck all.

I'm pretty sure i didn't tell black people what they should, what they shouldn't do or how they should feel.

All i said is i don't believe skin colour is the barrier that groups like BLM say it is, and that the way they are going on will not help black people.

I would argue this whole (absolutely pathetic victimising shambles of modern day society) has took prejudice back at least a decade with the way it’s been handled. I know blokes that have been in the army and must have fought along people of all races and (working on sites) hate racism and racist comment etc a lot and since seeing them recently are saying they don’t want to talk about the matter because they themselves are pissed off with the whole matter and may say slanderous marks agains those of colour. Me knowing them personally speaks volumes in how the gap has actually been widened by this shit rather brought together.

 

[The Fish]

I finally got round to reading that report, just a skim to be honest and not the attention it deserves.
Just to get your thoughts on a couple of things:
The report shows a spike in hate crime post referendum which you attribute to the rhetoric of the brexitiers. If this was the reason for the spike I would have expected to have seen the spike in the immediate couple of weeks before and after as that is when things are at there most hostile. Why do you think the spike didn't occur until a month after the referendum, seems odd.

In the conclusion of the report it says claims bu some that the increase in hate crime is due to a increase in reporting hold not water because figures show that there was no significant increase in violent hate crime.
What do you make of the fact they add the word violent into the equation?
Does that mean there could have been a significant increase of the less serious hate crime incidents, name calling etc but the serious incidents didn't change much?

I believe in 2015 the CPS had a change in direction in regard to hate crimes, they changed the guide lines for police on how to treat hate crimes and this was solidified in the 2017-2020 hate crime strategy.
The new guidelines move away from what a person intends to how it is perceived by the person making the complaint. (correct me if i'm wrong here, it's not a area of interest of mine so i may well be)
So for example moving away from race for safety:
Several years ago if I sent out a tweet saying that I don't believe transgenders are women and should not be allowed in female only spaces that would be fine as it's an opinion.
Today if I do the same and someone reports it to the police and say they feel this is violence toward them the police fill out a crime report, log it as a hate crime and file it as a none crime hate incident.
There are around 120 000 of these reports, 120 000 hate crimes on the figures that can be nothing more than a hyper woke individual being overly sensitive to someones reasoned and rationale view point.
Do you think something like this can be over exaggerating the amount of hate crime?

The result of the referendum emboldened the racists, bigots and islamophobes in the country, imo. Seeing that the demagogues who stirred up racial tension and nationalism had 'won' gave them the confidence to be more openly prejudiced. It wasn't like somebody flicked a switch. That's the reason for the delay imo.

I don't fully understand your second question.

Your example isn't a hate crime. It's an opinion. No, I don't believe something like that would be exaggerating the amount of racial hate crime.

 

[dangermows]

This is what the Premier League is supporting and forcing into our faces:

You must be logged on to see media items

It's not. Most don't know or give a shit about any of that. They don't even know there's an organisation called BLM or what it wants. They just want equality for black people.

Imagine thinking when players kneel down and have BLM on their shirts people watching on TV think it's about Palestine.

 

[Mackem Al]

This is what the Premier League is supporting and forcing into our faces:

You must be logged on to see media items

BLM have also openly stated that "Defund the Police" means "abolish the police" (contrary to backtracking statement released yesterday the words "abolish the police" remain in their manifesto) and that they wish to "Dismantle Capitalism". Lovely.

 

[KittenMittens]

You are being disingenuous with your statement about accepting that racism exists, as you say in the same breath that it doesn’t matter anyway.
You have a very simplistic outlook on things - that people are fully in control of their own destinies and that if people shut up moaning then they would be able to achieve whatever they like. outside influences don’t matter, prejudice is no barrier. They have no one else to blame but themselves. That is an incredibly naive outlook.
The Jewish example is a poor one - the Jews can look back at a history of success and acceptance in business, banking, movies and many other industries - there will be no shortage of Jewish people to help open doors. Part of the oppression of Jews is related to their historic success. White Europeans too have a history of success. Both groups are accepted in circles of power and influence. Black people can look back at their history and see slavery, oppression, colonialism, cheap labour as their starting point.

The second part of your point - how to deal with it, I will probably agree with you on many levels - the hostility will lead to a culture war which will deepen divisions.

You make out in your post that you are a tolerant person who sees no colour,
yet you show no empathy to the situation and put an awful lot of effort into telling black people what they should do, what they shouldn’t do and how they should feel.
I think you need to take your mask off and take a good look in the mirror - your outlook is a big part of the problem.

Good post this.

I see a lot of people who insist that they don't see colour, that they treat everyone fairly, and that they deplore racism.

When BLM is brought to their attention, their reaction has been entirely negative. They don't like the wording, they don't like the method, they don't like the people behind it, they think George Floyd was a career criminal and no loss to the world, they don't believe racism is a big problem in 2020, they think racism works both ways and they're a victim of racism too. They don't believe, even if any of these things are true, that people in Britain should take a stand against anything happening in America.

But they definitely hate racism. If only you can find an example of it that fits their version of racism.

On 606 someone argued that even though Ahmaud Arbery's pursuer stood over him after he had been shot and called him a 'F****n N*****r' according to an eyewitness, he should be given the benefit of the doubt and race may not have played any role in the killing.

Most of the above describes a subset of disingenuous people who are happy to turn the other cheek because it doesn't impact them directly and who claim to be anti-racist, but who enact that anti-racism by completely refusing to accept any incidents of racism, or any changes that could be made. They refuse to accept that 'systemic' racism doesn't have a big sign saying 'we are being racist'. it doesn't have separate bathrooms in America, 'No blacks, no dogs, no Irish' signs on shop door fronts, or bananas on the pitch. It's something deeper rooted in psyches, in decisions for jobs, in the way the police subconsciously treat people, in the way some of us (not all white people are guilty) immediately take the side of the white aggressor when told about an incident that ends in an innocent black man's life being ended.



So if you say you're anti-racist, but then refuse to acknowledge any instances of racism, and align yourself with the same values and tropes that American far right racists use, then maybe you need to reconsider one of those two things.

 

[Vauxie]

Load of codswallop this thread and ferk all to do with Sunlun or footy.
Have we sined anyone yet?

 

[Hulkster]

It's not. Most don't know or give a shit about any of that. They don't even know there's an organisation called BLM or what it wants. They just want equality for black people.

Imagine thinking when players kneel down and have BLM on their shirts people watching on TV think it's about Palestine.

The Premier League had inclusive "Kick it Out" and "Stand up to Racism" campaigns, which everyone was happy to support. They could have doubled down on these. Instead they chose to endorse the violent, racist, marxist, anti semitic Black Lives Matter campaign.

There are all manner of ways they could have supported the cause of anti racism - they chose this specific campaign and whether they like it or not, that means everything that comes with it.

I think this guy has summed it up pretty well :

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You must be logged on to see media items

 

[woodlebert]

The Premier League had inclusive "Kick it Out" and "Stand up to Racism" campaigns, which everyone was happy to support. They could have doubled down on these. Instead they chose to endorse the violent, racist, marxist, anti semitic Black Lives Matter campaign.

There are all manner of ways they could have supported the cause of anti racism - they chose this specific campaign and whether they like it or not, that means everything that comes with it.

I think this guy has summed it up pretty well :

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He's wrong because there are two things:

black lives matter - a rallying call for equality
Black Lives Matter - a global organisation

 

[dangermows]

Instead they chose to endorse the violent, racist, marxist, anti semitic Black Lives Matter campaign.

I think this guy has summed it up pretty well :

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No they didn't.

He's confused the two. Just like you.