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[BBC] Miners' Di Canio protest 'will only end with Sunderland campaign support'

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AlpineExile said:
'Closed shop' agreements.

a) do you know how much the subsidies are per tonne of coal in Germany?

b) did you know that there are only three mines left in Germany?

c) or, due to the fact that the government is phasing out the subsidies [by 2018], that these three remaining mines will also shut [again by 2018]?
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So an extra 30 years of mining then? Pleased the whole energy situation is sorted then. Who needs fossil fuels, eh?

gipetto said:
No I haven't at all. You've missed the point completely. Do the germans bring the country to its knees by proposing pay strikes whenever they fancy? They got greedy, whether it was the miners or the trade unions they were led by and in support of.
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I've missed no point. In what way did the miners get greedy?
 
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ajthemackem said:
  • Gary Duncan: 'Sunderland Anti-Fascist Coalition' is now officially working with the National Union of Miners (NUM). This is the breakthrough we needed to start mobilising serious forces against fascism. I am absolutely cream-crackered from activity, but it's all been worth it to unite with the great NUM. Watch this space for details of a major event coming soon.
    2 April at 22:48 via mobile
  • Gary Duncan: By the way, getting the backing of the NUM opens up the possibility of mobilising all trade unions. THIS IS MASSIVE!!

Click to expand...

This is a letter this tit sent to the Echo a few years ago. I would be very interested to understand why the council is giving my council tax money to a man who publicly calls for the smashing of the democratic system in this country....


"In his slightly separatist letter (Oct 10), Steve Colborn tells us that the "only way forward" is socialism, but that the Respect Party is not the way to achieve it.

Well of course it isn't. Steve knows as well as I do that the only way to real socialism is through revolution and smashing of the capitalist system and all its machinery.

As a member of the revolutionary Socialist Workers' Party I would like nothing more than to see this happen. Unfortunately though, a mass uprising just isn’t on the cards right now.

Yes, many people are dissatisfied with mainstream politics, but how many are clued-up on the system and are ready and willing to fight for the alternative in the way that is necessary?

It is a sad fact, but the masses are doped with materialism and entertainment, and while Corrie is on the telly and there's a lager and pizza in the fridge we are not going to see revolution. Therefore, there is a need for the next best thing, Parliamentary reform.

The Respect Party aims to fight for the best possible deal for working people within the present system. And it's essential such a party exists, even if only as a fringe party, to prevent the rich from being all-powerful.

I sincerely hope Steve manages to stir the masses and wake them from their slumber. Till then though, all we have is our vote.

Gary Duncan, Respect Party, Hylton Castle, Sunderland."
 
The youngest deep coal miner from Durham has to be 60-65 years old that's some squad to mobilise
 
Noggin said:
They're turning in to the North East's version of The Society of Black Lawyers, the people's thought police. Totally daft publicity seeking, what they expect to achieve is beyond me.
Click to expand...

Headlines Marra. Simple as that. I didn't even know that there were any collieries operating in County Durham now. Who had even heard of this politically correct cretin, before this.
 
Maybe the miners should have taken the fight against fascism a bit more seriously in 1944 and not lost over 2 million days to strikes.
 
AlpineExile said:
I'm guessing at trying to organise a protest march. :-D

First an attempt to co-opt the public sector unions.
Click to expand...

what the dma membership run, couple of hundred, sombody said 46 active, plus whatever solicalist worker types that are sell the paper on match day.

left him, maybe they can use the next rabble at the next edl rally.

my guess is that tne vast majority couldnt give a fuck, and are of an age where the prospect of protesting, is less appealing than necking a pint in a warm pub
 
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AlpineExile said:
a) do you know how much the subsidies are per tonne of coal in Germany?

b) did you know that there are only three mines left in Germany?

c) or, due to the fact that the government is phasing out the subsidies [by 2018], that these three remaining mines will also shut [again by 2018]?
Click to expand...

a) No I don't know how much the subsidies are, but I bet they are substantially higher than they were here prior to the mass closures in the 90's.
b) I didn't know that either, so they're worse off than us.
c)No coalmine has an infinite lifespan, withdrawing subsidies? again I didn't know that, same result as here then.

Thanks for the info, I'll be reading up on the German situation forthwith.

safcpirate said:
The youngest deep coal miner from Durham has to be 60-65 years old that's some squad to mobilise
Click to expand...
I think you need to check the dates a bit better marra, I finished at Easington (courtesy of Mrs. Thatcher) in 1993, I am currently 58 and there were a lot younger lads than me worked there.
 
Dibble said:
This is a letter this tit sent to the Echo a few years ago. I would be very interested to understand why the council is giving my council tax money to a man who publicly calls for the smashing of the democratic system in this country....


"In his slightly separatist letter (Oct 10), Steve Colborn tells us that the "only way forward" is socialism, but that the Respect Party is not the way to achieve it.

Well of course it isn't. Steve knows as well as I do that the only way to real socialism is through revolution and smashing of the capitalist system and all its machinery.

As a member of the revolutionary Socialist Workers' Party I would like nothing more than to see this happen. Unfortunately though, a mass uprising just isn’t on the cards right now.

Yes, many people are dissatisfied with mainstream politics, but how many are clued-up on the system and are ready and willing to fight for the alternative in the way that is necessary?

It is a sad fact, but the masses are doped with materialism and entertainment, and while Corrie is on the telly and there's a lager and pizza in the fridge we are not going to see revolution. Therefore, there is a need for the next best thing, Parliamentary reform.

The Respect Party aims to fight for the best possible deal for working people within the present system. And it's essential such a party exists, even if only as a fringe party, to prevent the rich from being all-powerful.

I sincerely hope Steve manages to stir the masses and wake them from their slumber. Till then though, all we have is our vote.

Gary Duncan, Respect Party, Hylton Castle, Sunderland."
Click to expand...

When I read that I pictured Rik Mayals character in the young ones spouting it. What a complete bellend. Communist ideology from a half wit
 
Dibble said:
Well of course it isn't. Steve knows as well as I do that the only way to real socialism is through revolution and smashing of the capitalist system and all its machinery.

As a member of the revolutionary Socialist Workers' Party I would like nothing more than to see this happen. Unfortunately though, a mass uprising just isn’t on the cards right now.

Yes, many people are dissatisfied with mainstream politics, but how many are clued-up on the system and are ready and willing to fight for the alternative in the way that is necessary?.
Click to expand...

This just about sums up the left:

a) The only way to achieve our means is through violence.
b) Problem is we can't get the support because people aren't 'clued up', aka 'they're stupid'.

In every left-wing movement since the year dot: the French revolution; the Russian Revolution; the countless left-wing revolutions in Africa and South America, a few determined individuals have concluded that they need to force people to be 'free' because they're to stupid to understand the concept of freedom - and in their minds the people will thank them for it later.

Except the people don't thank them because it invariably leads to chaos and broken promises.

Same with the Trade Unions but on a more democractic scale. They coerce and cajole people into believeing them and promise better times.

Problem for the bloke who wrote that article is that some people did believe them. Many people followed them. And look where it got them? Once bitten twice shy.

The concept of a union is a grand idea. It is intended to provide some balance between employer and worker. Problem is that power corrupts and when the balance between union leaders and their representatives is skewed, then the union leaders take over the asylum and start making decisions in their interests. They lose sight of the bigger picture which is accepting change and innovation as a means to maintaining a competitive industry.

Britain's union leaders presided over failing, uncompetitive industries - and for that they must take the blame for the decimation of Britain's heavy industry.

They failed their representatives/workers - people no longer have faith in them or socialist ideas. The bloke who wrote that article should take a look in the mirror and ask himself: are we really that stupid that we just can't see what they can see? or is it a case they are not trusted anymore on the back of the experience of what they do from a position of power.
 
Locke's SAFC said:
This just about sums up the left:

a) The only way to achieve our means is through violence.
b) Problem is we can't get the support because people aren't 'clued up', aka 'they're stupid'.

In every left-wing movement since the year dot: the French revolution; the Russian Revolution; the countless left-wing revolutions in Africa and South America, a few determined individuals have concluded that they need to force people to be 'free' because they're to stupid to understand the concept of freedom - and in their minds the people will thank them for it later.

Except the people don't thank them because it invariably leads to chaos and broken promises.

Same with the Trade Unions but on a more democractic scale. They coerce and cajole people into believeing them and promise better times.

Problem for the bloke who wrote that article is that some people did believe them. Many people followed them. And look where it got them? Once bitten twice shy.

The concept of a union is a grand idea. It is intended to provide some balance between employer and worker. Problem is that power corrupts and when the balance between union leaders and their representatives is skewed, then the union leaders take over the asylum and start making decisions in their interests. They lose sight of the bigger picture which is accepting change and innovation as a means to maintaining a competitive industry.

Britain's union leaders presided over failing, uncompetitive industries - and for that they must take the blame for the decimation of Britain's heavy industry.

They failed their representatives/workers - people no longer have faith in them or socialist ideas. The bloke who wrote that article should take a look in the mirror and ask himself: are we really that stupid that we just can't see what they can see? or is it a case they are not trusted anymore on the back of the experience of what they do from a position of power.
Click to expand...

Spot on
Does Nissan have a union I don't work ther but I've been told they have to work hard for there money but the plant is the most efficient in the world of car making and the workers are looked after
 
I remember when in Mags town at the time of the Olympics, them spouting all sorts of nonsense - what they probably didn't anticipate was the challenge they were about to receive on their philosophies and thinking.

They hated the Olympics as a waste of money, but none of those millions who glimpsed the torch just for a few seconds as it tripped around the country, OK you may question legacy, but for those weeks, it was the biggest mobilisation of public interest than any political movement can ever expect to achieve.

Their dogma of championing what is in essence a dictatorial state is so laughable its hardly worth drawing breath.(but I did a few times :-D) Every socialist experiment by its very nature ends up with a dictator,controlling the masses freedom, whilst enjoying personal riches - there are enough examples of this through time to prove this statement.

The enclave of power grows forever smaller... voting ends up either me or no one else... any one think of any examples?..hmmmm...


Dibble said:
This is a letter this tit sent to the Echo a few years ago. I would be very interested to understand why the council is giving my council tax money to a man who publicly calls for the smashing of the democratic system in this country....


"In his slightly separatist letter (Oct 10), Steve Colborn tells us that the "only way forward" is socialism, but that the Respect Party is not the way to achieve it.

Well of course it isn't. Steve knows as well as I do that the only way to real socialism is through revolution and smashing of the capitalist system and all its machinery.

As a member of the revolutionary Socialist Workers' Party I would like nothing more than to see this happen. Unfortunately though, a mass uprising just isn’t on the cards right now.

Yes, many people are dissatisfied with mainstream politics, but how many are clued-up on the system and are ready and willing to fight for the alternative in the way that is necessary?

It is a sad fact, but the masses are doped with materialism and entertainment, and while Corrie is on the telly and there's a lager and pizza in the fridge we are not going to see revolution. Therefore, there is a need for the next best thing, Parliamentary reform.

The Respect Party aims to fight for the best possible deal for working people within the present system. And it's essential such a party exists, even if only as a fringe party, to prevent the rich from being all-powerful.

I sincerely hope Steve manages to stir the masses and wake them from their slumber. Till then though, all we have is our vote.

Gary Duncan, Respect Party, Hylton Castle, Sunderland."
Click to expand...
 
Locke's SAFC said:
This just about sums up the left:

a) The only way to achieve our means is through violence.
b) Problem is we can't get the support because people aren't 'clued up', aka 'they're stupid'.

In every left-wing movement since the year dot: the French revolution; the Russian Revolution; the countless left-wing revolutions in Africa and South America, a few determined individuals have concluded that they need to force people to be 'free' because they're to stupid to understand the concept of freedom - and in their minds the people will thank them for it later.

Except the people don't thank them because it invariably leads to chaos and broken promises.

Same with the Trade Unions but on a more democractic scale. They coerce and cajole people into believeing them and promise better times.

Problem for the bloke who wrote that article is that some people did believe them. Many people followed them. And look where it got them? Once bitten twice shy.

The concept of a union is a grand idea. It is intended to provide some balance between employer and worker. Problem is that power corrupts and when the balance between union leaders and their representatives is skewed, then the union leaders take over the asylum and start making decisions in their interests. They lose sight of the bigger picture which is accepting change and innovation as a means to maintaining a competitive industry.

Britain's union leaders presided over failing, uncompetitive industries - and for that they must take the blame for the decimation of Britain's heavy industry.

They failed their representatives/workers - people no longer have faith in them or socialist ideas. The bloke who wrote that article should take a look in the mirror and ask himself: are we really that stupid that we just can't see what they can see? or is it a case they are not trusted anymore on the back of the experience of what they do from a position of power.
Click to expand...

Cracking post.
 
gipetto said:
No I haven't at all. You've missed the point completely. Do the germans bring the country to its knees by proposing pay strikes whenever they fancy? They got greedy, whether it was the miners or the trade unions they were led by and in support of.
Click to expand...

I don't think the miners themselves got greedy. The vote for strike action for a pay rise was doomed to fail which was why Scargill tagged the issue of pit closures on which was a lot more contentious issue and a direct threat to peoples jobs. The NUM won the strike ballot mainly on the pit closure issue and the rest is history as they say.
 
RTG said:
The Durham Miners' Association says it will only end protests over Paolo Di Canio being named Sunderland manager if the club joins an anti-fascist campaign.

You must be logged on to see external links
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Free publicity for them. Truth is no one really cares about the mining association these days. Small time association trying to advertise themselves imo.
 
Parkmaverick said:
I don't think the miners themselves got greedy. The vote for strike action for a pay rise was doomed to fail which was why Scargill tagged the issue of pit closures on which was a lot more contentious issue and a direct threat to peoples jobs. The NUM won the strike ballot mainly on the pit closure issue and the rest is history as they say.
Click to expand...

There was a much bigger issue than pay rises going on for the Government.

The government wanted the unions smashed and they wouldn't accept uncompetitive industries.

Thatcher is often seen as the government's figurehead in setting the ball rolling. She wasn't.

It was decided among conservative think-tanks, well before Thatcher came to power, that the unions must be smashed as they were holding the country to ransom.

Ask yourself this: if it was your business would you accept being bullied by a union group into accepting their demands and when you didn't accept them they downed tools? I f***ing wouldn't. I'd sack the lot of 'em.

During the '70s, conservatives sought counsel from the Americans. How do we sort this problem out? A small, unelected group of people are in effect running the country and stopping production when they're not happy? The Americans advised that you have to smash these groups - they have too much power. So, Thatcher, being the determined individual she was took the advice on board and made it happen.

I'm not quite sure how the unions were so short-sighted. Yes, they could win a battle here and there, e.g. Ted Heath, but it was a war they couldn't win because sooner or later the government were going to get pissed off with being held to ransom and make a determined effort to regain control of the country as the elected representatives of the country.

The rot had set in well before the '80s. The government simply could not accept what had happened in the '70s and before that. The '80s was merely the resolution of a relationship between the unions and the government that had become irretrievable.
 
viccarlton said:
a) No I don't know how much the subsidies are, but I bet they are substantially higher than they were here prior to the mass closures in the 90's.
b) I didn't know that either, so they're worse off than us.
c)No coalmine has an infinite lifespan, withdrawing subsidies? again I didn't know that, same result as here then.

Thanks for the info, I'll be reading up on the German situation forthwith.

I think you need to check the dates a bit better marra, I finished at Easington (courtesy of Mrs. Thatcher) in 1993, I am currently 58 and there were a lot younger lads than me worked there.
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They're Soviet Unionesque in that the value of the coal dug out of the ground is less than the subsidies. i.e. it would be cheaper to pay the miners full salaries to just sit at home rather than go and dig out the very dirty brown coal that's there.
 
Parkmaverick said:
I don't think the miners themselves got greedy. The vote for strike action for a pay rise was doomed to fail which was why Scargill tagged the issue of pit closures on which was a lot more contentious issue and a direct threat to peoples jobs. The NUM won the strike ballot mainly on the pit closure issue and the rest is history as they say.
Click to expand...

:?:

Eh?
 
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