Astrophotography

70s traveller said:
I've seen a Celestron Astromaster 80az (from Jessops), would this be a decent beginner telescope for me to investigate the sky before eventually getting around to some basic AP, or would you suggest purchase of a more capable scope?
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You get what you pay for. If you are looking into astrophotography then you will quickly outgrow this scope. It is not really suitable for photography.

It will be good for visual stuff. In that you will be able to get a good view of some star clusters, the moon will look impressive and although Jupiter and Saturn will appear as small dots you will see some details. If you imagine getting one of the circles cut by a hole punch and putting it at the bottom of a pint glass painted black, that is roughly how Jupiter will appear. You might not be able to make out the giant red spot but will see the two main coloured bands. You will see the rings of Saturn.

However it is manual control so you will really need to learn the sky, and that is not a bad thing. Not being motorised, things will drift out of view quickly.

After getting a telescope, the next steps for those interested in imaging are usually an adapter to put a DSLR camera on the back and effectively use the scope as a big lens. You could take a short exposure of a star field through that but if you want to do anything more, such as a deeper star field, deep sky imaging you need a scope on an equatorial mount, which will rotate to compensate for the rotation of the earth.

The other route many go down is to get a planetary camera, a high frame rate video camera and use that to image the moon and planets. For that, while an equatorial mount is best and Altz/AZ mount (like this) is suitable. Basically an AZ mount does up/down, left/right. When motorised it will track objects by moving in two directions to compensate for the rotation of the earth, though the object will appear to rotate in the field of view slightly. This makes it fine to do a 1 minute video* of the moon or planets, but makes it unsuitable for longer exposures for deep sky imaging. But the key is, it has a motor. If you try to do planetary imaging without a motor you will find it drifts out of view in seconds.

Any equipment and any telescope that improves on what you have, if it is enough to get you hooked and see more, has benefits. But given the questions you have asked, I suspect you will be getting rid of that and looking for more with in the year. If you don't have the budget for more then got for it, because once you find some of those clusters (M13 in Hercules!) your mind will be blown and leave you hungry for more, where as you might otherwise have not bothered. But my advice is either look to pay more for something that will last or if that really is your limit (by the way you might save up to £10 more shopping around), then keep the box, the manuals etc and that will get a much better price on eBay in 12 months time.


* quick explainer. When imaging the moon and planets, you take a video with a high frame rate camera. You then load it into special astronomy software which pulls the video apart frame by frame, attempts to align each frame to account for any drift and then looks at each region of the image. For each small region it pulls out the most clear shot of that section from the entire video and "stacks" that as the final image. Atmospheric disturbances will give any image a clear wobble throughout. Once a clear part has been found for each region, they are joined together for a final crisp image.

I have a motorised AZ mount and using a high zoom factor and video camera, I can do some detailed images of the moon, but I can't fit it all in the same shot. So I take a number of different shots of each part (I think a full moon can be around 10 sections) and join them together once complete. By the time I'm adding in the last section, I'm having to rotate it by a few degrees to align properly. If you consider there are 60x24=1440 minutes in a day and the earth rotates 360 degrees in a day, then the earth rotates 1/4 degree every minute. If I take 10 x 1 minute videos of each section of the moon and spend 1 minute repositioning the camera and doing software stuff between, then I take 20 minutes to image the whole lot. Earth has rotated by 5 degrees in that time, so the moon appears to be rotated by 5 degrees from the first shot shot of the mosaic to the last!
 


Kevj said:
I’ll give that a whirl, but still think the remote option is better for not disturbing the camera. But thank you anyway!
Click to expand...
Thanks, I'll be trialling all my camera options to see what works better for me. I knew It would be a long learning path before I manage to get an acceptable img of something celestial.
DaveH said:
You get what you pay for. If you are looking into astrophotography then you will quickly outgrow this scope. It is not really suitable for photography.

It will be good for visual stuff. In that you will be able to get a good view of some star clusters, the moon will look impressive and although Jupiter and Saturn will appear as small dots you will see some details. If you imagine getting one of the circles cut by a hole punch and putting it at the bottom of a pint glass painted black, that is roughly how Jupiter will appear. You might not be able to make out the giant red spot but will see the two main coloured bands. You will see the rings of Saturn.

However it is manual control so you will really need to learn the sky, and that is not a bad thing. Not being motorised, things will drift out of view quickly.

After getting a telescope, the next steps for those interested in imaging are usually an adapter to put a DSLR camera on the back and effectively use the scope as a big lens. You could take a short exposure of a star field through that but if you want to do anything more, such as a deeper star field, deep sky imaging you need a scope on an equatorial mount, which will rotate to compensate for the rotation of the earth.

The other route many go down is to get a planetary camera, a high frame rate video camera and use that to image the moon and planets. For that, while an equatorial mount is best and Altz/AZ mount (like this) is suitable. Basically an AZ mount does up/down, left/right. When motorised it will track objects by moving in two directions to compensate for the rotation of the earth, though the object will appear to rotate in the field of view slightly. This makes it fine to do a 1 minute video* of the moon or planets, but makes it unsuitable for longer exposures for deep sky imaging. But the key is, it has a motor. If you try to do planetary imaging without a motor you will find it drifts out of view in seconds.

Any equipment and any telescope that improves on what you have, if it is enough to get you hooked and see more, has benefits. But given the questions you have asked, I suspect you will be getting rid of that and looking for more with in the year. If you don't have the budget for more then got for it, because once you find some of those clusters (M13 in Hercules!) your mind will be blown and leave you hungry for more, where as you might otherwise have not bothered. But my advice is either look to pay more for something that will last or if that really is your limit (by the way you might save up to £10 more shopping around), then keep the box, the manuals etc and that will get a much better price on eBay in 12 months time.


* quick explainer. When imaging the moon and planets, you take a video with a high frame rate camera. You then load it into special astronomy software which pulls the video apart frame by frame, attempts to align each frame to account for any drift and then looks at each region of the image. For each small region it pulls out the most clear shot of that section from the entire video and "stacks" that as the final image. Atmospheric disturbances will give any image a clear wobble throughout. Once a clear part has been found for each region, they are joined together for a final crisp image.

I have a motorised AZ mount and using a high zoom factor and video camera, I can do some detailed images of the moon, but I can't fit it all in the same shot. So I take a number of different shots of each part (I think a full moon can be around 10 sections) and join them together once complete. By the time I'm adding in the last section, I'm having to rotate it by a few degrees to align properly. If you consider there are 60x24=1440 minutes in a day and the earth rotates 360 degrees in a day, then the earth rotates 1/4 degree every minute. If I take 10 x 1 minute videos of each section of the moon and spend 1 minute repositioning the camera and doing software stuff between, then I take 20 minutes to image the whole lot. Earth has rotated by 5 degrees in that time, so the moon appears to be rotated by 5 degrees from the first shot shot of the mosaic to the last!
Click to expand...
I'm blown already after just looking through the Guide To Stars & Planets [Sr Patrick Moore 2010 reprint] & online to give me some idea of what's up there which led me to looking for some sort of not too complicated (cheapish) telescope that would be better than everything I've got (such as binocs), I totally expect that within a very short period I'll be looking for something better. But not knowing much about what's on the market or what each is capable of I'm largely running blind. I knew the scope would not be suitable for photography but I need to see better what's up there before attempting an img. So for the sake of about £99 - with free deliv. I thought why not? I have loads to consider before making any decision on where I go next but your final para is arguably where I'll end up in time.
 
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I can understand that you are tempted by the little scope but I agree with DaveH. I would be more tempted to save and getting something equatorial, eg a skywatcher eq3 synscan or eq5, or a star adventurer. The 2nd hand prices of these stay high, especially if you keep all the boxes and instructions and you could actually get your money back after a few years.
Very difficult to get hold of now but quite possible to make if you are practical, is a mirror mount for your binos. They would absolutely transform your binos enabling you to comfortably see in more detail.
 
70s traveller said:
Thanks, I'll be trialling all my camera options to see what works better for me. I knew It would be a long learning path before I manage to get an acceptable img of something celestial.

I'm blown already after just looking through the Guide To Stars & Planets [Sr Patrick Moore 2010 reprint] & online to give me some idea of what's up there which led me to looking for some sort of not too complicated (cheapish) telescope that would be better than everything I've got (such as binocs), I totally expect that within a very short period I'll be looking for something better. But not knowing much about what's on the market or what each is capable of I'm largely running blind. I knew the scope would not be suitable for photography but I need to see better what's up there before attempting an img. So for the sake of about £99 - with free deliv. I thought why not? I have loads to consider before making any decision on where I go next but your final para is arguably where I'll end up in time.
Click to expand...

Where (roughly) do you live? I have a scope which doesn’t get used very often which you’re more than welcome to borrow until you feel more comfortable to buy one.
 
Kevj said:
I’ll give that a whirl, but still think the remote option is better for not disturbing the camera. But thank you anyway!
Click to expand...
Remote timers are very good and pretty much essential if you want to take multiple long exposures for stacking. But is not necessary for single exposures... you either use the shutter delay feature so any vibration has stopped and on very long exposures any vibration at the start is insignificant anyway. Or you can use the 'top hat' method where you start your exposure holding a black card card in front of your lens as you press the shutter button, then take it away after.
 
phil said:
Remote timers are very good and pretty much essential if you want to take multiple long exposures for stacking. But is not necessary for single exposures... you either use the shutter delay feature so any vibration has stopped and on very long exposures any vibration at the start is insignificant anyway. Or you can use the 'top hat' method where you start your exposure holding a black card card in front of your lens as you press the shutter button, then take it away after.
Click to expand...

Admittedly, my experience with long exposures are for very dimly lit places and a spot of light painting, but the results from the remote are far better as you can stand well away from the camera and assure its stability. It made a difference to my photography, so I kept going in that direction.

Only used cards for WB correction.
 
phil said:
I can understand that you are tempted by the little scope but I agree with DaveH. I would be more tempted to save and getting something equatorial, eg a skywatcher eq3 synscan or eq5, or a star adventurer. The 2nd hand prices of these stay high, especially if you keep all the boxes and instructions and you could actually get your money back after a few years.
Very difficult to get hold of now but quite possible to make if you are practical, is a mirror mount for your binos. They would absolutely transform your binos enabling you to comfortably see in more detail
Click to expand...
I'm very tempted by the 80az as my first scope but can see the sensible logic in looking at a better model after another day looking at websites. I'll have a look for the eq3 & 5 for my next investigation.
Kevj said:
Where (roughly) do you live? I have a scope which doesn’t get used very often which you’re more than welcome to borrow until you feel more comfortable to buy one.
Click to expand...
I live in Jarrow near the border with Hebburn. I have no qualms about buying one that would work as I learn & see what else I'd need, thanks for the offer anyway.
 
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70s traveller said:
I'm very tempted by the 80az as my first scope but can see the sensible logic in looking at a better model after another day looking at websites. I'll have a look for the eq3 & 5 for my next investigation.

I live in Jarrow near the border with Hebburn. I have no qualms about buying one that would work as I learn & see what else I'd need, thanks for the offer anyway.
Click to expand...

Offer is still there if you want 👍🏻
 
Kevj said:
Offer is still there if you want 👍🏻
Click to expand...
That would be great, although I'd need to sort out some convenient position in the house to postion it to trial. I have one on my top floor with a velux that I could get a decent-ish e to s sky view & to the north side of the Tyne to have a look, one question though: Is it heavy or awkward for me to transport safely up two levels of stairs? If it was my own I'd not be concerned. I could also set up in my backyard space with an e to sse view that I've used to view a boring section of clear sky with stars in it when the clouds go! [Obviously I'll also need to tell my wife why a scope is likely to be here!].
Thank you tor the offer.
 
DaveH said:
You get what you pay for. If you are looking into astrophotography then you will quickly outgrow this scope. It is not really suitable for photography.

It will be good for visual stuff. In that you will be able to get a good view of some star clusters, the moon will look impressive and although Jupiter and Saturn will appear as small dots you will see some details. If you imagine getting one of the circles cut by a hole punch and putting it at the bottom of a pint glass painted black, that is roughly how Jupiter will appear. You might not be able to make out the giant red spot but will see the two main coloured bands. You will see the rings of Saturn.

However it is manual control so you will really need to learn the sky, and that is not a bad thing. Not being motorised, things will drift out of view quickly.

After getting a telescope, the next steps for those interested in imaging are usually an adapter to put a DSLR camera on the back and effectively use the scope as a big lens. You could take a short exposure of a star field through that but if you want to do anything more, such as a deeper star field, deep sky imaging you need a scope on an equatorial mount, which will rotate to compensate for the rotation of the earth.

The other route many go down is to get a planetary camera, a high frame rate video camera and use that to image the moon and planets. For that, while an equatorial mount is best and Altz/AZ mount (like this) is suitable. Basically an AZ mount does up/down, left/right. When motorised it will track objects by moving in two directions to compensate for the rotation of the earth, though the object will appear to rotate in the field of view slightly. This makes it fine to do a 1 minute video* of the moon or planets, but makes it unsuitable for longer exposures for deep sky imaging. But the key is, it has a motor. If you try to do planetary imaging without a motor you will find it drifts out of view in seconds.

Any equipment and any telescope that improves on what you have, if it is enough to get you hooked and see more, has benefits. But given the questions you have asked, I suspect you will be getting rid of that and looking for more with in the year. If you don't have the budget for more then got for it, because once you find some of those clusters (M13 in Hercules!) your mind will be blown and leave you hungry for more, where as you might otherwise have not bothered. But my advice is either look to pay more for something that will last or if that really is your limit (by the way you might save up to £10 more shopping around), then keep the box, the manuals etc and that will get a much better price on eBay in 12 months time.


* quick explainer. When imaging the moon and planets, you take a video with a high frame rate camera. You then load it into special astronomy software which pulls the video apart frame by frame, attempts to align each frame to account for any drift and then looks at each region of the image. For each small region it pulls out the most clear shot of that section from the entire video and "stacks" that as the final image. Atmospheric disturbances will give any image a clear wobble throughout. Once a clear part has been found for each region, they are joined together for a final crisp image.

I have a motorised AZ mount and using a high zoom factor and video camera, I can do some detailed images of the moon, but I can't fit it all in the same shot. So I take a number of different shots of each part (I think a full moon can be around 10 sections) and join them together once complete. By the time I'm adding in the last section, I'm having to rotate it by a few degrees to align properly. If you consider there are 60x24=1440 minutes in a day and the earth rotates 360 degrees in a day, then the earth rotates 1/4 degree every minute. If I take 10 x 1 minute videos of each section of the moon and spend 1 minute repositioning the camera and doing software stuff between, then I take 20 minutes to image the whole lot. Earth has rotated by 5 degrees in that time, so the moon appears to be rotated by 5 degrees from the first shot shot of the mosaic to the last!
Click to expand...

Thats a great explanation of imaging and stacking, thanks. I've always kind of understood it but that explains it superbly.
 
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Kevj said:
www.space.com

Watch a brilliant fireball shine brighter than the full moon (video)

The fireball was seen across nine U.S. states.
www.space.com www.space.com

Hopefully of interest to those on here.

How to photograph the night sky with a fisheye lens | BBC Sky at Night Magazine

Ultra-wide-angle lenses can be used to capture the Milky Way crossing the whole sky. Here are tips and tricks for using a fisheye, and what not to do.
www.skyatnightmagazine.com
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10-17mm is currently my widest angle lens so that is lined up when I begin my trial shots. Thanks for the article.
 
Kevj said:
I’ve seen the same footage with the moon/ orientation rotated by 90deg anticlockwise.

Fake imo.
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Looks fake. From the best I can tell, that main crater is Cleomedes, which is listed as being 76 miles across. Grabbing a quick pause on it shows one of the objects as being about a quarter of the length of the crater. That means if there really are objects flying around the moon like that then they are 19 miles long. The angle of the shadow doesn't look consistent with the mountains either.
 
It is worth nipping out with a camera now. Jupiter is just below the moon.

You don't need much exposure time to get the moon in good detail, but Jupiter will be a small dim dot. Up the exposure time and the moon will be over exposed but you might get Jupiter as more of a disk and if you are lucky, pick out the 4 moons (tiny dots currently two side by side above it and two in a line below). Then use some photo editing software to blend the two together. Might even need three photos, one good for the moon, one good for Jupiter and one good for the moons.

I'll try to edit my effort over the weekend and will share.
 
DaveH said:
It is worth nipping out with a camera now. Jupiter is just below the moon.

You don't need much exposure time to get the moon in good detail, but Jupiter will be a small dim dot. Up the exposure time and the moon will be over exposed but you might get Jupiter as more of a disk and if you are lucky, pick out the 4 moons (tiny dots currently two side by side above it and two in a line below). Then use some photo editing software to blend the two together. Might even need three photos, one good for the moon, one good for Jupiter and one good for the moons.

I'll try to edit my effort over the weekend and will share.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that info, I've just been out with my compact to get a few tries. Where the Mon & Jupiter are is just out of view for where my scope is set up indoors so it's been handhelds from my garden bench with very shivering hands. I'll have a look at the dwnlds later to see better. I don't suppose I'll have the moons with the compact imgs. Although I did manage them with some I took with my dslr a while ago.
 

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