Ashwin or Stokes

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brandon

brandon

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Been bugging me for a while this, well, since Day 2 in Rajkot. Poll on Indian telly voted for by billions (no doubt) of biased Indian's suggested Ashwin is the better allrounder.

Well, he isn't. First of all, I don't think it's a particularly fair/reasonable comparison anyway as seam bowlers and spin bowlers just shouldn't be compared - simply because they can't on an equal and fair basis.

However, based on just batting and bowling it isn't even close. No way does Ashwin get in India's team as a batsman only - whereas Stokes would for us. Then with the bowling, both would get in.

Factor in also, the fact that Ashwin has been largely garbage away from home. Whereas Stokes continues to score runs and take wickets in any situation/climate.
 


brandon said:
Been bugging me for a while this, well, since Day 2 in Rajkot. Poll on Indian telly voted for by billions (no doubt) of biased Indian's suggested Ashwin is the better allrounder.

Well, he isn't. First of all, I don't think it's a particularly fair/reasonable comparison anyway as seam bowlers and spin bowlers just shouldn't be compared - simply because they can't on an equal and fair basis.

However, based on just batting and bowling it isn't even close. No way does Ashwin get in India's team as a batsman only - whereas Stokes would for us. Then with the bowling, both would get in.

Factor in also, the fact that Ashwin has been largely garbage away from home. Whereas Stokes continues to score runs and take wickets in any situation/climate.
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He averages 55 batting 6 so far like.

He annoys me though.
 
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The thing is you say Ashwin wouldn't get in India's team as a batsman alone, but would he get in ours as a pure batsman? More than likely.

Ashwin is some player, but as someone to play in all conditions then Stokes probably just edges it.
 
Dexter said:
The thing is you say Ashwin wouldn't get in India's team as a batsman alone, but would he get in ours as a pure batsman? More than likely.

Ashwin is some player, but as someone to play in all conditions then Stokes probably just edges it.
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No. He wouldn't get in England's side as a batsman.
 
I think Ashwin is one of the most overrated cricketers I've seen.

Stokes will score 5000 runs and take 200 wickets and be in the company of some of the best of all-time

Ashwin will have a completely lop-sided record which will show him as great in India and average elsewhere.
 
debut century aside stokes had a pretty poor record up until this last year or so when he has exploded.

granted we as durham fans all knew he had the ability and would make it but it isn't surprising that an indian audience voted an indian player as better.
 
The Breen Machine said:
I think Ashwin is one of the most overrated cricketers I've seen.

Stokes will score 5000 runs and take 200 wickets and be in the company of some of the best of all-time

Ashwin will have a completely lop-sided record which will show him as great in India and average elsewhere.
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The thing is he'll be the greatest lop sided cricketer ever.

It also shows how partisan cricket has got. I've only been watching 13 years the difference is stark.

Maybes thats down to the lack of world class players, or the generally shit pitches.

From the sub continent the world class bowlers are Murali,Khan,Akram,Waqar and Kumble. Ashwin will end up with better batting figures than all of them and probably better bowling apart from Murali.

Despite his success being mainly subcontient and I hate him for that, it's hard to deny him.

Maybe cos just like in football, cricket has been ruined in my lifetime. I'm far too partisan now rather than appreciating the best cricketers.

Like in all of my life barring Messi. I've missed the best cricketers,footballers and music.

At least we have the internet. I'm not sober.
 
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Jack Torrance said:
Ashwin is quality mind but I'd choose Stokes
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This ^^ lob sided or not. Stokes can win a match with bat and ball, not sure Ashwin is that kind of player. Stokes is a tremendous fielder as well. He should average above 40 with bat and nudge under 30 with the ball, which is the holy grail for all rounders.
 
Ashwin has improved a lot recently, so unfair to judge him on away tours

Be interesting to see how he does now

If you were watching Ashwin for the first team here you would say he was easily the best in the world

But if this was Australia you would probably same the same for Stokes
 
mackembhoy said:
The thing is he'll be the greatest lop sided cricketer ever.

It also shows how partisan cricket has got. I've only been watching 13 years the difference is stark.

Maybes thats down to the lack of world class players, or the generally shit pitches.

From the sub continent the world class bowlers are Murali,Khan,Akram,Waqar and Kumble. Ashwin will end up with better batting figures than all of them and probably better bowling apart from Murali.

Despite his success being mainly subcontient and I hate him for that, it's hard to deny him.

Maybe cos just like in football, cricket has been ruined in my lifetime. I'm far too partisan now rather than appreciating the best cricketers.

Like in all of my life barring Messi. I've missed the best cricketers,footballers and music.

At least we have the internet. I'm not sober.
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The thing is with the players you have mentioned, despite them all having good records on sub-continent wickets, they also had excellent records elsewhere and could win a game pretty much anywhere in the world, Ashwin is yet to prove this.

johnson said:
Ashwin has improved a lot recently, so unfair to judge him on away tours

Be interesting to see how he does now

If you were watching Ashwin for the first team here you would say he was easily the best in the world

But if this was Australia you would probably same the same for Stokes
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There's barely a top class spinner in the world today though, 15 years ago he would have had Warne, Kumble, Saqlain, Mushtaq, Vettori and Harbhajan for company and would be struggling to even get picked in the Indian team, it's all about context.
 
The Breen Machine said:
The thing is with the players you have mentioned, despite them all having good records on sub-continent wickets, they also had excellent records elsewhere and could win a game pretty much anywhere in the world, Ashwin is yet to prove this.



There's barely a top class spinner in the world today though, 15 years ago he would have had Warne, Kumble, Saqlain, Mushtaq, Vettori and Harbhajan for company and would be struggling to even get picked in the Indian team, it's all about context.
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Ashwin's recent record is as good as most of them

People tend to dismiss modern players, the best could play in any era

Ashwin still young, lets see if he can match them
 
johnson said:
Ashwin's recent record is as good as most of them

People tend to dismiss modern players, the best could play in any era

Ashwin still young, lets see if he can match them
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He's 30, not exactly old but he could well be at his peak now.

Until he wins a game against a half decent test nation away from home, I'll not be getting too excited about him.
 
The Breen Machine said:
He's 30, not exactly old but he could well be at his peak now.

Until he wins a game against a half decent test nation away from home, I'll not be getting too excited about him.
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Nah not for a spinner, he is getting better and better

We last played him just 4 years ago in India, he is a totally different bowler
 
johnson said:
Ashwin has improved a lot recently, so unfair to judge him on away tours

Be interesting to see how he does now

If you were watching Ashwin for the first team here you would say he was easily the best in the world

But if this was Australia you would probably same the same for Stokes
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I disagree, its totally fair to judge him on away tours - because that's all you've got. What's the alternative? Judge him only on home wickets?

At this time, Ben Stokes has won Test Matches at home and away. He's scored runs and taken wickets in all conditions and is therefore better (more valuable) than Ashwin.

When Ashwin gets runs and wickets in England/Australia/NZ we'll look at it again.
 
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