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Ashes Inquest

Inside Forward said:
Smith definitely has talent for international cricket but he seems mentally weak which is concerning.
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Also another one who’s been messed about by the management. The lad had never opened the batting in his career as far as I’m aware and all of a sudden they try to turn him into Adam Gilchrist by having him at the top of the order in shorter form games.

Unsurprisingly he looked all out of sorts which has clearly messed with his head even when going back to the test team where he’d previously looked so good.
 

Stormo said:
All keep their roles. SSN.
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Not defending tenures of the past, but given the reviews into most away Ashes series hammerings have led to change, it is amazing that no one is really carrying the can for this debacle.

In 2021/22, Giles lost his job, with Silverwood and Root following not long after and that was a series played during some of the strictest COVID lockdowns you could imagine, on the back of England playing more games in "bubbles" than any other side during 2020 and 2021.

McCullum takes this lot for a piss up, does no preparation, gets hammered by Australia B and nothing :D
 
The Breen Machine said:
Not defending tenures of the past, but given the reviews into most away Ashes series hammerings have led to change, it is amazing that no one is really carrying the can for this debacle.

In 2021/22, Giles lost his job, with Silverwood and Root following not long after and that was a series played during some of the strictest COVID lockdowns you could imagine, on the back of England playing more games in "bubbles" than any other side during 2020 and 2021.

McCullum takes this lot for a piss up, does no preparation, gets hammered by Australia B and nothing :D
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Yeah but the key difference was Giles, Root and Sliverwoods overall test record including outside ashes tests, which was terrible.

As opposed to this regime good overall test record.

McCullum and Stokes record miles better than Silverwood and Root.
 
Voice of fair play said:
Yeah but the key difference was Giles, Root and Sliverwoods overall test record including outside ashes tests, which was terrible.

As opposed to this regime good overall test record.

McCullum and Stokes record miles better than Silverwood and Root.
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It is, and I am not excusing that record, but they had significant mitigation for a lot of it.
 
Voice of fair play said:
Yeah but the key difference was Giles, Root and Sliverwoods overall test record including outside ashes tests, which was terrible.

As opposed to this regime good overall test record.

McCullum and Stokes record miles better than Silverwood and Root.
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So that excuses the indiscipline both on and off the field in the last year?
This is Key and Guild's response to this indiscipline

"behaviour of some players was "unprofessional" and there will be "new expectations"
What a cop out!

With those sort of entitlements granted I'll find it very difficult to support my country at cricket once Root and Stokes retire.
I can't approve of a head coach that has overseen the indiscipline that was displayed by players representing my country
Each to his own of course.
 
Aidan11 said:
The ECB are doing their best to put England supporters off supporting England.
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There'll be many who are prepared to accept these standards regardless. A significant number of England supporters are now there for a boys' day out. High ticket prices,lots of exorbitant priced beer consumed! Win,win for ECB.
It is,however,difficult to control a drinks culture prevalent amongst current wealthy and thus entitled cricketers if they choose that path
 
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The Breen Machine said:
It is, and I am not excusing that record, but they had significant mitigation for a lot of it.
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I am not sure it was ‘ for a lot of it’ tbf.

I think @Parkside makes a wider point in whether the off field behaviour should be a consideration?

But in terms of just on field results the Silverwood regime was absolutely terrible the one win in 17 tests was not just against Australia.

And the decision to not chase a fourth innings target of 270 odd against New Zealand of 77 overs in 2021 and block from ball one was the single most gutless decision made by a England team any time any era
Parkside said:
So that excuses the indiscipline both on and off the field in the last year?
This is Key and Guild's response to this indiscipline

"behaviour of some players was "unprofessional" and there will be "new expectations"
What a cop out!

With those sort of entitlements granted I'll find it very difficult to support my country at cricket once Root and Stokes retire.
I can't approve of a head coach that has overseen the indiscipline that was displayed by players representing my country
Each to his own of course.
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Yeah that’s a wider fairer point and and different discussion.

But on results on the field it’s not a fair comparison to say because Root and Silverwood lost their jobs after a Ashes defeat that McCullum and Stokes should too.

Because one of the records in other test matches is a hell of a lot better than the other
 
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Makes you wonder how bad the winter would have needed to be for them to be sacked. It was all so predictably rotten from the (lack of) preparation, through the issues of bad behaviour and the stubborn 'we know best' attitude.
 
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Voice of fair play said:
Yeah that’s a wider fairer point and and different discussion.

But on results on the field it’s not a fair comparison to say because Root and Silverwood lost their jobs after a Ashes defeat that McCullum and Stokes should too.
7
Because one of the records in other test matches is a hell of a lot better than the other
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I took the basis of the discussion was whether McCullum and/or Key should be sacked not whether their overall record is better than previous regimes and certainly the remit of those two should include on and off field discipline. Also,is it fair to compare regimes results when the talent available,both for and against, is so variable between regimes.Equally nor is it fair to compare off field conduct when any players ' activities nowadays will be captured and posted on social media. Both Compton and Botham were guilty of plenty of 'social lapses' but it was rarely reported.
As you posted previously McCullum rightly gave them freedom and some abused it.
Hopefully lessons will be learnt but I'm not optimistic.
 
I could have done the inquest

Poor preparation. A NZ white ball series and then a laugh at a club ground
Training sessions half arsed. I’m still laughing that they stopped practicing ground fielding
Lack of professionalism off the field. It’s a long tour, we get players need to unwind. But they’re still professional athletes, and the senior players on the piss to the levels they were is pathetic
Lack of professionalism on the field. Shit shots aplenty

They’ve achieved the impossible and made themselves less likely than the Australians
 
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