• The forum upgrades are now largely complete.
    Please read this thread for more details.
    New user registrations are currently disabled.

Ashes 5 test - The Oval

Status
Not open for further replies.

Salem Street South said:
I think we’re in danger of over playing the importance of the pitch a bit here mind. Yes it’s nice to have a green top, overheads, and 6ft 90mph quicks, but Jimmy has been excellent on tours of UAE, Australia and SL in recent times, most of the time not bowling much above 84/85mph. Yes he’s our greatest ever fast bowler, but surely that shows if you get the ball in good areas consistently, you get your rewards. Sam Curran showed last summer he was capable of getting some of the worlds best batsmen out and could have made a crucial difference in this series.

Oh and check out the pitch from last years Test at the Oval and tell me how different it looks to the OT one!

You must be logged on to see media items
Click to expand...
I'm done with this. Take it up with Jimmy Anderson who bowled on them all last year and will know this years pitches as well as anyone. Jimmy categorically states that they are hugely different, he states with absolute certainty that they helped our bowlers enormously last year and haven't this year. It you want to disagree with Jimmy Anderson that's your issue, although you seemed to agree earlier in the day!

Also Jimmy can bowl brilliantly on flat pitches but he is one of the greatest seam bowlers to ever play the game.
 
cooky said:
If this team is the approach then I would prefer to see Pope given a shot at 5 or 6 over Buttler or Bairstow.
Click to expand...

Yeah you don't need both, I think going forward just play 1 of them as the wicket keeper at 7,

We really really need to get in the mindset of picking 5 front batsman whose only jobs is to score runs, our all rounder and our best wicket keeper batsman at 7

Its clearly Stokes 6, Bairstow at 7, but if the new coach and selectors really believe in Buttler then do that.

I don't blame the players I blame the strategy, its soo muddled.

If Stokes can't bowl, then just accept you only have 4 bowlers and make your spinner bowl more.
rentaghost said:
I'm done with this. Take it up with Jimmy Anderson who bowled on them all last year and will know this years pitches as well as anyone. Jimmy categorically states that they are hugely different, he states with absolute certainty that they helped our bowlers enormously last year and haven't this year. It you want to disagree with Jimmy Anderson that's your issue, although you seemed to agree earlier in the day!

Also Jimmy can bowl brilliantly on flat pitches but he is one of the greatest seam bowlers to ever play the game.
Click to expand...

That Oval pitch was the one flat one of the summer, it always is mind, so its nto a great example

Pitches this series suited Australia so much more, although its made for close games

So much analysys going on, but Steve Smith, thats why they won the series

he is getting 100 every innings, genuinely,
 
Last edited:
The Rat said:
Yeah you don't need both, I think going forward just play 1 of them as the wicket keeper at 7,

We really really need to get in the mindset of picking 5 front batsman whose only jobs is to score runs, our all rounder and our best wicket keeper batsman at 7

Its clearly Stokes 6, Bairstow at 7, but if the new coach and selectors really believe in Buttler then do that.

I don't blame the players I blame the strategy, its soo muddled.

If Stokes can't bowl, then just accept you only have 4 bowlers and make your spinner bowl more.


That Oval pitch was the one flat one of the summer, it always is mind, so its nto a great example

Pitches this series suited Australia so much more, although its made for close games

So much analysys going on, but Steve Smith, thats why they won the series

he is getting 100 every innings, genuinely,
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree. Going forward it has to be 5 batsman, Stokes, Bairstow or Buttler (unless Foakes regains form), 4 bowlers. Root and Burns pick themselves at the minute but the other 3 batting spots are all up for grabs I think.
 
The Rat said:
Yeah you don't need both, I think going forward just play 1 of them as the wicket keeper at 7,

We really really need to get in the mindset of picking 5 front batsman whose only jobs is to score runs, our all rounder and our best wicket keeper batsman at 7

Its clearly Stokes 6, Bairstow at 7, but if the new coach and selectors really believe in Buttler then do that.

I don't blame the players I blame the strategy, its soo muddled.

If Stokes can't bowl, then just accept you only have 4 bowlers and make your spinner bowl more.


That Oval pitch was the one flat one of the summer, it always is mind, so its nto a great example

Pitches this series suited Australia so much more, although its made for close games

So much analysys going on, but Steve Smith, thats why they won the series

he is getting 100 every innings, genuinely,
Click to expand...
Bairstow best batsman/WK 😂
 
cooky said:
Yeah I agree. Going forward it has to be 5 batsman, Stokes, Bairstow or Buttler (unless Foakes regains form), 4 bowlers. Root and Burns pick themselves at the minute but the other 3 batting spots are all up for grabs I think.
Click to expand...

Yeah agreed. I just think we aren't see the full value of having such a good number 7 because the top 5 never gets runs consistently.

We've weakened our strength to cover a weakness, its a shame really

You get to the stage where people want Ali out because he couldn't bat, thats how muddled the thinking has become
 
rentaghost said:
I'm done with this. Take it up with Jimmy Anderson who bowled on them all last year and will know this years pitches as well as anyone. Jimmy categorically states that they are hugely different, he states with absolute certainty that they helped our bowlers enormously last year and haven't this year. It you want to disagree with Jimmy Anderson that's your issue, although you seemed to agree earlier in the day!

Also Jimmy can bowl brilliantly on flat pitches but he is one of the greatest seam bowlers to ever play the game.
Click to expand...
Ok mate chill out. I’ll not take it up with Jimmy cheers and considering he’s only bowled 4 overs I’m not sure he’s exactly best placed to gauge the wickets this summer. Anyway, I’ve had enough as well, so will leave it there. You can have the last word if you like.
 
Mitch Marsh in for Head for the convicts. There were calls to drop Warner but I would have been amazed if that had happened. The Captain (Smith, nit Paine) wants his buddies around him even if it means he has to score their runs for them
 
TopCat said:
Mitch Marsh in for Head for the convicts. There were calls to drop Warner but I would have been amazed if that had happened. The Captain (Smith, nit Paine) wants his buddies around him even if it means he has to score their runs for them
Click to expand...
I would be amazed too, he's one of the best players around, despite a dip in form.
 
Salem Street South said:
Ok mate chill out. I’ll not take it up with Jimmy cheers and considering he’s only bowled 4 overs I’m not sure he’s exactly best placed to gauge the wickets this summer. Anyway, I’ve had enough as well, so will leave it there. You can have the last word if you like.
Click to expand...

OK I might as well.

So Jimmy Anderson, the bowler that has more wickets on test matches in England than any player in the history of the game. Best mate of Stuart Broad and in and around the England squad all summer isn't a good judge of pitches in this country. Yet I 'Salem Street South,' with the polar opposite view to Jimmy, knows best.

:lol:
 
mackembhoy said:
As I said being a tad daft by using more emotional language.

Was just surprised by the fact he had never batted 2 sessions. You'd have thought that was a pre-requisite for test match cricket.

@rentaghost @Voice of fair play I know you've both said you cant just look at averages and go they should be the next cab off the rank, but have our selectors done any digging into who the side should be.

I'm not really sure to be honest, they don't really seem to have made well thought out selections or been coherent in their selections.
Click to expand...

I simply think they have looked at the batsman in county cricket and don’t think they ready or good enough against the the Aussies.

And I think they right!
 
rentaghost said:
OK I might as well.

So Jimmy Anderson, the bowler that has more wickets on test matches in England than any player in the history of the game. Best mate of Stuart Broad and in and around the England squad all summer isn't a good judge of pitches in this country. Yet I 'Salem Street South,' with the polar opposite view to Jimmy, knows best.

:lol:
Click to expand...
For balance:

You must be logged on to see external links
 
Salem Street South said:
You said he was our most economical bowler ‘by far’. (If we want to be pedantic about it Denly was our most economical bowler)

The rates over both innings for the four main bowlers were

Broad 3.87
Archer 3.46
Leach 4.01
Overton 3.16

So yes he was the cheapest, but there’s not a lot in it, perhaps if he gone ~1.7 like the Aussie quirks you’d have a point, but he didn’t which makes your ‘by far’ comment hyperbole in my book.

However, if what you’re saying is correct, he was also the least successful wicket taker ‘by far’ in the match

Broad 5
Archer 3
Leach 3
Overton 2

and he bowled the fewest overs ‘by far’

Broad 39
Archer 41
Leach 35.1
Overton 33.5

I wonder if the reason for that is that he’s just not that good.

I think you’ve got too entrenched in your view that Overton ‘farting’ it down at 82mph was the way to go on that pitch when the evidence suggests not and that Curran’s 80mph ‘farts’ would have been fodder means you aren’t capable of seeing any other point of view.

I’m not looking to crucify him here by the way, he came in to do a difficult job in testing conditions and tried his best. I just think it was the wrong selection and Curran would have been a better call, particularly when he’s been in every squad yet they bring Overton in out of nowhere.

As a horses for courses type selection I don’t think you can justifiably say it worked, which reaffirms my belief that you’re overstating the nature of the pitch. It may not have been the type of green seamer of which we’ve seen several at Lords over the last few years, but neither was it, or conditions ie hot & sunny, like the ones he struggled with in the Caribbean over the winter. As I’ve already said, the Aussies got swing and as I’ve also several times, he had a lot of success last year on similar decks against very very good batsmen.

As you say though, not to worry we move on.

It’s not nonsense and it’s nothing like Defoe at centre back. He was an opener for the one day side, a very successful one and the Test side were in desperate need of an opener. Just about every man and his dog wanted Roy to open. It was the obvious option and only one really.
Click to expand...

A obvious option to make his test debut in the Ashes as a opener when he has never opened in the county championship!!

How you get the was the obvious option I will never know?
 
Sigh

I’ve actually got no problem with the team. Overton is never a test bowler and Roy looks shot

The balance is dreadful. But the problem was the squad picked

Bairstow at 5 and Buttler at 6 is just nonsense.

For the winter we really need to bed down some proper batsmen no matter how raw. We have some great hitters, but you don’t fit that many into a side
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top