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Adil Rashid

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ProfessionalMackem

Striker
Harshly treated or correct decision to play a "defensive" spinner instead.

I'm undecided.

Pros
-In his last 7 tests Rash has taken 29 wickets more than any England bowler.
-Rash was best English bowler in recent champions trophy
-Rash took 23 wickets in last tour of India. A remarkable feat not even matched by Warne iirc
-A leggie who takes wickets and bowls out the tail
-decent bat too

Cons
-He can prove expensive
-If we are playing Mo as a batsman who bowls a bit we need another frontline spinner
-He always bowls a odd bad ball, which can be unproductive in test cricket

Conclusion. In this day and age of attacking brand of English cricket, do we need a spinner in the ashley giles mould who holds a end up or should we be wanting to take wickets with every bowler? I feel that Rash has been harshly treated and should have played in the Lords test.

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Comments are a interesting read
 

Glad you put defensive in quotes.

Dawson failed to hold an end on a spin friendly wicket, in the first innings. Second was much better, but the pitch was practically sub-continent by day 4.

A pair also pisspoor for somebody who is supposedly a bowling all-rounder.

I read Bayliss wants him in there because he has a tough temperament. Any number of county dobbers could qualify on that premise.

Bit of a slap in the face for Rashid, not getting picked in those sorts of conditions.
 
smoker said:
Glad you put defensive in quotes.

Dawson failed to hold an end on a spin friendly wicket, in the first innings. Second was much better, but the pitch was practically sub-continent by day 4.

A pair also pisspoor for somebody who is supposedly a bowling all-rounder.

I read Bayliss wants him in there because he has a tough temperament. Any number of county dobbers could qualify on that premise.

Bit of a slap in the face for Rashid, not getting picked in those sorts of conditions.
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Agreed mate. Big slap in the face. Rash has never had a home bouncy bunsen wicket like lords to play on. I know we won, but this Dawson selection has got me in a tizzy.

I havent seen enough of Dawson to pass a proper judgement ( I thought he was a decent county player). I thought we had moved past these kind of selections. Like you say I dont think Dawson had a good test at all. We will never know what the score might have been if Rash had played. I know I might be biased cos I love leggies. But thinking more on it, Rash has to play in this test team. Mason Crane is a while off from pushing for a test call up imo.
 
ProfessionalMackem said:
Agreed mate. Big slap in the face. Rash has never had a home bouncy bunsen wicket like lords to play on. I know we won, but this Dawson selection has got me in a tizzy.

I havent seen enough of Dawson to pass a proper judgement ( I thought he was a decent county player). I thought we had moved past these kind of selections. Like you say I dont think Dawson had a good test at all. We will never know what the score might have been if Rash had played. I know I might be biased cos I love leggies. But thinking more on it, Rash has to play in this test team. Mason Crane is a while off from pushing for a test call up imo.
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Bayliss is obsessed with 'tough characters'. Hence his obsession with Ballance.

It is also his responsibility, as the coach, to create an environment where players have the confidence to succeed.
 
smoker said:
Bayliss is obsessed with 'tough characters'. Hence his obsession with Ballance.

It is also his responsibility, as the coach, to create an environment where players have the confidence to succeed.
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I do like Bayliss and what he brings to the team. Just not sure on his selection of Balance and Dawson. How Stoneman didnt get a shot before Balances umpteenth chance is beyond me.
 
Leggies can get more spin and more variations but we've all seen the play on the Lords Test a SLA couldn't ask for more turn and the batsmen were having more than enough difficulty.

A leggy would normally give more long-hops and full tosses.

So the issue comes down to economy (expecting Dawson to be more economic than Rashid), spin (although Lords had more than enough not every pitch will be like that), batting contribution (I'd put Rashid a long way ahead) and you could say Rashid has been a good team player so he's earned the chance to play on a turning wicket.
 
Bri said:
Leggies can get more spin and more variations but we've all seen the play on the Lords Test a SLA couldn't ask for more turn and the batsmen were having more than enough difficulty.

A leggy would normally give more long-hops and full tosses.

So the issue comes down to economy (expecting Dawson to be more economic than Rashid), spin (although Lords had more than enough not every pitch will be like that), batting contribution (I'd put Rashid a long way ahead) and you could say Rashid has been a good team player so he's earned the chance to play on a turning wicket.
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So would you have had him in? Totally agree with last sentence mind.
 
Tricky one this and can see both arguments.

I think with Ali now being seen as our go-to spinner, a second spinner needs to be very reliable economy-wise. Granted Dawson went for a few but I see the logic. With the second spinner potentially having fewer overs, they don't get quite as long to settle in to their spell, and need to be on the money doing a job ASAP.

Still saying that, his stats over the winter are excellent and he can feel hard done by.

I would however like to think that when the wicket isn't going to rag square, we play an extra batsman or seamer ahead of Dawson/Rashid.
 
Carteron said:
Tricky one this and can see both arguments.

I think with Ali now being seen as our go-to spinner, a second spinner needs to be very reliable economy-wise. Granted Dawson went for a few but I see the logic. With the second spinner potentially having fewer overs, they don't get quite as long to settle in to their spell, and need to be on the money doing a job ASAP.

Still saying that, his stats over the winter are excellent and he can feel hard done by.

I would however like to think that when the wicket isn't going to rag square, we play an extra batsman or seamer ahead of Dawson/Rashid.
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I can see both arguments too. Its just do you not think that picking a "defensive" second spinner goes against our current brand of cricket?

Plus you say Moeen is our number one spinner (I agree with you btw), but thats not what Bayliss says in the article i posted above. He says that Dawson is number one and moeen number two as he wants him as a batter 1st.
 
ProfessionalMackem said:
I do like Bayliss and what he brings to the team. Just not sure on his selection of Balance and Dawson. How Stoneman didnt get a shot before Balances umpteenth chance is beyond me.
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Because Ballance is averaging over 50 so far this season perhaps? Think the "obsession" is more about his scoring in the counties than his toughness but, even as a Yorkshireman, I'd have to concede that he seems unable to quite make the "step up"(not unlike Graeme Hick)
 
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sheepfarmer said:
Because Ballance is averaging over 50 so far this season perhaps? Think the "obsession" is more about his scoring in the counties than his toughness but, even as a Yorkshireman, I'd have to concede that he seems unable to quite make the "step up"(not unlike Graeme Hick)
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Fair enough mate, just had a gansy at the county top scorers this season. Ballance is 2nd after sanga. Stoneman 3rd.

Most runs
Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s
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7 11 1 1086 200 108.60 1629 66.66 6 2 0 127 9
(Surrey)
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8 11 3 815 203* 101.87 1574 51.77 3 4 0 108 2
(Yorkshire)
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8 13 0 761 197 58.53 1140 66.75 3 1 1 109 4
(Surrey)
8 13 1 731 219* 60.91 1461 50.03 1 6 0 98 2
 
sheepfarmer said:
Because Ballance is averaging over 50 so far this season perhaps? Think the "obsession" is more about his scoring in the counties than his toughness but, even as a Yorkshireman, I'd have to concede that he seems unable to quite make the "step up"(not unlike Graeme Hick)
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Averaging 50+ against County Dobbers is a bit different to facing Morkel and Rabada at 90mph. His wicket in the first innings was a prime example of his rooted deep in the crease technique problem.
 
ProfessionalMackem said:
Fair enough mate, just had a gansy at the county top scorers this season. Ballance is 2nd after sanga. Stoneman 3rd.
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one thing i did notice during the test, was how much the England team misses someone like Ian bell to steady the ship, i looked at stoneman's stats yesterday and i was impressed
 
He's been absolutely rancid in the county championship by all accounts this season, I don't think we could've picked him based on his form this season.

Not sure anyone predicted the pitch would spin as much as it did for a Lord's pitch either.
 
smoker said:
Averaging 50+ against County Dobbers is a bit different to facing Morkel and Rabada at 90mph. His wicket in the first innings was a prime example of his rooted deep in the crease technique problem.
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Bayliss doesn't rate Ballance man

It was a100% Joe Root pick
 
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