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5th test the oval

Sea to Shining Sea said:
Those pitches largely nullified a very good Australian seam attack too. That’s why they had to resort to garbage bumper tactics.

A continuation of these types of pitches will put Anderson into retirement. They’ve been the types of pitches that Michael Holding would say he’d throw the ball back at his captain
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Aye and there bumper tactics at Lords worked as the bumpers were going down at high 80s not low 80s
Voice of fair play said:
It’s a ridiculous argument @essex boy is making

Apparently because most of their players could not make the best Australia ever and get in ahead of some of the greatest players the game has produced, it apparently means their not a good side currently.

Total nonsense their test world champions and the players you mentioned above very very good test players.

Of course they a good test side
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So in 2005 when lots of test players were not being lost to 20/20 franchise cricket, an England side managed to beat a side containing Warne, Mcgrath, Hayden, Langer, Gilchrist, Ponting et al. Now in an era of poor test cricket (are sides like Sri Lanka, South Africa, Pakistan, Windies remotely close to anywhere near being good test sides compared to years gone by?), Australia are the best around but it does not make them a good/great side. Warner would have been dropped long ago, in days gone by, Mcgill played as a second spinner by comparison now there back up spinner doesnt get a game at a ground tailor made for spin) since Wood a genuine world class bowler Khawaja cant buy a run on top of the fact from 2019 to 2022 he didn't even get picked). Labushange now feated as a great has one test hundred outside of Austrlaia or did until the last test
 
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essex boy said:
Aye and there bumper tactics at Lords worked as the bumpers were going down at high 80s not low 80s


So in 2005 when lots of test players were not being lost to 20/20 franchise cricket, an England side managed to beat a side containing Warne, Mcgrath, Hayden, Langer, Gilchrist, Ponting et al. Now in an era of poor test cricket (are sides like Sri Lanka, South Africa, Pakistan, Windies remotely close to anywhere near being good test sides compared to years gone by?), Australia are the best around but it does not make them a good/great side. Warner would have been dropped long ago, in days gone by, Mcgill played as a second spinner by comparison now there back up spinner doesnt get a game at a ground tailor made for spin) since Wood a genuine world class bowler Khawaja cant buy a run on top of the fact from 2019 to 2022 he didn't even get picked). Labushange now feated as a great has one test hundred outside of Austrlaia or did until the last test
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Didn’t Robinson and Broad take the wickets bowling bumpers? They’re no quicker than Anderson. Height more of a factor
 
rentaghost said:
All factually correct but it doesn’t prove much imo. Anderson hasnt been at his best but has had 7 catches dropped off him throughout the series and 4 months ago was ranked number one bowler in the world. There’s no sentiment involved here they are picking the best team that they think will win the test and picking a fast bowler with more test wickets than anyone else in history is the direction they have chosen.
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Don't think he's had 7 dropped off him like unless he had 4-5 in the last match. The first 2 tests he only had 2-3 dropped which was less than off broads bowling.
He is obviously a good bowler. But this series he hasn't been worth his place, and for the most part hasn't looked overly threatening or made best use of the conditions with the new ball. It is very unlike him
 
essex boy said:
Aye and there bumper tactics at Lords worked as the bumpers were going down at high 80s not low 80s


So in 2005 when lots of test players were not being lost to 20/20 franchise cricket, an England side managed to beat a side containing Warne, Mcgrath, Hayden, Langer, Gilchrist, Ponting et al. Now in an era of poor test cricket (are sides like Sri Lanka, South Africa, Pakistan, Windies remotely close to anywhere near being good test sides compared to years gone by?), Australia are the best around but it does not make them a good/great side. Warner would have been dropped long ago, in days gone by, Mcgill played as a second spinner by comparison now there back up spinner doesnt get a game at a ground tailor made for spin) since Wood a genuine world class bowler Khawaja cant buy a run on top of the fact from 2019 to 2022 he didn't even get picked). Labushange now feated as a great has one test hundred outside of Austrlaia or did until the last test
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This current Australian side is not on or even close to the one you mentioned ( possibly best side ever)

However there has been plenty of Australian sides between that great side and this current side.

And this one better than most in between.

If was you iirc who stated on another thread that this was the worst Australian side for 30 years!

That is absolute nonsense.

The yardstick in any era is who is the best side currently, I appreciate and totally take your points other nation test sides not has good as in the past, that is totally fair comment

However this current Australian side although not on with probably the best test ever are still the best side in the world currently and still a very good side, it is really daft to say anything else tbh.
 
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essex boy said:
I think he is a fantastic bowler but in the right conditions. In this series Stokes has nullified him the only ground he would have been effective on he was not picked. Take it up with Stokes


And to the best of my knowledge over the last few home series in the summer of 21, 22 etc the England captain was not asking for flat wickets. It may seem brutally harsh but picking him on these types of wickets add in he cant bat is like playing with 10. Again, take it up with Stokes who seems to be getting an easy ride
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I think you are showing your hand far too early regarding Stokes. The way I see it he took over a team performing poorly, low on confidence and since then we have something like a won 12 and lost 3 record and playing some thrilling cricket in the process. Currently against the best test team in the world we are down 2-1 having been very competitive in all 3 and phenomenal in the recent rain ruined test. If we lose at the Oval and it’s a 3-1 result your argument might have a bit more strength but it all seems a bit daft - it’s as if you have an agenda but it’s hard to think why you would have one as we all want the same thing which is the test team to do well.
 
Voice of fair play said:
This current Australian side is not on or even close to the one you mentioned ( possibly best side ever)

However there has been plenty of Australian sides between that great side and this current side.

And this one better than most in between.

If was you iirc who stated on another thread that this was the worst Australian side for 30 years!

That is absolute nonsense.

The yardstick in any era is who is the best side currently, I appreciate and totally take your points other nation test sides not has good as in the past, that is totally fair comment

However this current Australian side although not on with probably the best test ever are still the best side in the world currently and still a very good side, it is really daft to say anything else tbh.
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With no Lyon, they probably are the worse of the last 30 years
 
essex boy said:
Aye and there bumper tactics at Lords worked as the bumpers were going down at high 80s not low 80s


So in 2005 when lots of test players were not being lost to 20/20 franchise cricket, an England side managed to beat a side containing Warne, Mcgrath, Hayden, Langer, Gilchrist, Ponting et al. Now in an era of poor test cricket (are sides like Sri Lanka, South Africa, Pakistan, Windies remotely close to anywhere near being good test sides compared to years gone by?), Australia are the best around but it does not make them a good/great side. Warner would have been dropped long ago, in days gone by, Mcgill played as a second spinner by comparison now there back up spinner doesnt get a game at a ground tailor made for spin) since Wood a genuine world class bowler Khawaja cant buy a run on top of the fact from 2019 to 2022 he didn't even get picked). Labushange now feated as a great has one test hundred outside of Austrlaia or did until the last test
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Robinson’s bumpers were going down at high 70s tbf with a bit of success
 
rentaghost said:
I think you are showing your hand far too early regarding Stokes. The way I see it he took over a team performing poorly, low on confidence and since then we have something like a won 12 and lost 3 record and playing some thrilling cricket in the process. Currently against the best test team in the world we are down 2-1 having been very competitive in all 3 and phenomenal in the recent rain ruined test. If we lose at the Oval and it’s a 3-1 result your argument might have a bit more strength but it all seems a bit daft - it’s as if you have an agenda but it’s hard to think why you would have one as we all want the same thing which is the test team to do well.
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My views on Stokes are based on this series in terms of mate picking. Those close to him will hopefully be pointing it out and he will stop it. I agree a very proactive captain who has done a lot in a short period of time. However magic carpet rides for English test skippers don't last forever
 
essex boy said:
With no Lyon, they probably are the worse of the last 30 years
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Just utter nonsense tbf. They are a very good side The Aussie side in transition who Cook scored all those runs against were far worse for a start. Plenty of that team were either on the wane or not good enough. Under Micky Arthur they had huge issues as well.

Even Jimmy had a great series against that lot :lol:
 
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rentaghost said:
Just utter nonsense tbf. The Aussie side in transition who Cook scored all those runs against were far worse for a start. Plenty of that team were either on the wane or not good enough.

Even Jimmy had a great series against that lot :lol:
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20/20 had not taken off back then so standard of test cricket was better

There are reasons why Stokes have expressed extreme concern about the state of the game. Ponting, Hussey, Clarke and Watson are world's apart from their current 3-6 Smith apart

The rest of our side rode on the back of Cook (a great). It's similar.to how the side now has rode on Stokes and Woods back
 
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essex boy said:
20/20 had not taken off back then so standard of test cricket was better

There are reasons why Stokes have expressed extreme concern about the state of the game. Ponting, Hussey, Clarke and Watson are world's apart from their current 3-6 Smith apart
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Not at that stage of their careers they weren’t.
 
essex boy said:
20/20 had not taken off back then so standard of test cricket was better

There are reasons why Stokes have expressed extreme concern about the state of the game. Ponting, Hussey, Clarke and Watson are world's apart from their current 3-6 Smith apart

The rest of our side rode on the back of Cook (a great). It's similar.to how the side now has rode on Stokes and Woods back
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I don’t agree at all with your ‘worst in 30 years’ nonsense but I’ll run with it. If your argument is that Australia are worse as test cricket on the whole is worse due to 20/20 etc then that’s the same across the board. England are playing the best test team in the world now. England have improved beyond recognition since Stokes took over to the extent that they have had 4 very competitive games against them and embarrassed them in one until the weather intervened. Our test team is in the best place it has been in a long time performance and results wise.
essex boy said:
20/20 had not taken off back then so standard of test cricket was better

There are reasons why Stokes have expressed extreme concern about the state of the game. Ponting, Hussey, Clarke and Watson are world's apart from their current 3-6 Smith apart

The rest of our side rode on the back of Cook (a great). It's similar.to how the side now has rode on Stokes and Woods back
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That tour seems to have been a bit of a one off taking advantage of a team in complete transition. In all of his other 30 innings against the really good Australian he averaged 26. That’s on a par with Stoneman and slightly worse than Rory Burns.
Better than Adam Lyth tho
 
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