[4th Test] South Africa v England

Starts tomorrow at the Wanderers bru

Talk of Archer coming back and flying in training, but who does he replace?

Curran - lengthens the batting, and gets rid of a left arm option
Bess - do we really need 5 seamers?
Wood - bowled very well, can he play back to back tests at this stage?

or do we keep an unchanged team?

frankly, I haven’t a clue
 

mackembhoy

Striker
Depends on the pitch.

Looking at the last few tests played there. Spinners have had some joy. Australia game Maharaj and lyon took 9 wickets

Other pitches spinners haven't been picked by either side.
 
Starts tomorrow at the Wanderers bru

Talk of Archer coming back and flying in training, but who does he replace?

Curran - lengthens the batting, and gets rid of a left arm option
Bess - do we really need 5 seamers?
Wood - bowled very well, can he play back to back tests at this stage?

or do we keep an unchanged team?

frankly, I haven’t a clue
Caveat: I haven't seen the pitch and that dictates everything, as you'd expect. But...

...I would drop Curran myself. If its a traditional Wanderers pitch I wouldn't think his batting would be a difference maker - and I'd actually like to put Buttler in particular under a bit more pressure to deliver some runs. Bowlers and wickets will win this match and I'd pick the best attack we can for a fast and bouncy deck. Use it as a drill for Australia and have Broad, Wood and Archer (if all fit) rotating, with Stokes adding X factor and Bess holding an end/batting at eight. Idea Sam Curran is going to be useful for us in Australia is for the birds anyway, so a tail that might look like that (unless Ali sorts himself out) is what we're going to have to work with anyway. This pitch is the most Australian type pitch there is outside Australia, so lets test ourselves.

I also want to see Wood and Archer bowl together, because I hope and pray it'll show to the selectors what we should be doing with Archer: let him be a conventional new ball bowler, who hits lengths at a decent tick i.e. like Rabada. That's what he is, he isn't a four over, rough them up, speedster, stop trying to make him one. Wood, however is, so hopefully if they are in the team together, they'll use Jof properly.
 
Archer for Curran please, Wanderers is a fast track. Hope Woody can play as it’s a perfect pitch for him but if not I’d put Woakes in for him

Rabada is a massive loss for them
This for me. I'm not really a Curran fan. I want him to go back to Surrey and work on his batting - long-term for me, he's more likely to be a batting all-rounder and therefore I'd be trying to encourage him to become the cover and ultimate long-term replacement for Stokesy.
I think if/when we pick Archer he needs to be used in short bursts, 3/4 overs at a time, 90MPH, aggressive
Absolutely not. No. No. No. No.

a) this will break his body and we need more from him.
b) he is on record as saying he doesn't think he is this type of bowler.
c) look at all the times he has hit 92+mph in his short test career. The lad gets faster as his spells go longer, he gets grooved in. He doesn't usually hit top speed until over 5, 6, even 7 of his spells - Lords is the classic case, but Old Trafford too.

Jof has the accuracy to be different and world class as a new ball bowler. He can become more of a Curtley Ambrose type bowler - tick along at 88mph, accurately, with occasional aggressive bursts. His Headingly performance shows the way. Actually, the lad on the other side - Rabada - shows the template.

You want a bowler like that - we have one. His name is Mark Wood.
 
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I don't think you can keep Curran in the team to strengthen the batting. He's either worth his place as a bowler or he isn't. The Top 7 have to score the runs, and hopefully 8 & 9 can chip in with some runs. It's harsh on the young lad, but if Archer is fit, he's the obvious one to drop out

Sibley, Crawley, Denly, Root, Stokes, Pope, Buttler, Bess, Wood, Archer, Broad
 
This for me. I'm not really a Curran fan. I want him to go back to Surrey and work on his batting - long-term for me, he's more likely to be a batting all-rounder and therefore I'd be trying to encourage him to become the cover and ultimate long-term replacement for Stokesy.


Absolutely not. No. No. No. No.

a) this will break his body and we need more from him.
b) he is on record as saying he doesn't think he is this type of bowler.
c) look at all the times he has hit 92+mph in his short test career. The lad gets faster as his spells go longer, he gets grooved in. He doesn't usually hit top speed until over 5, 6, even 7 of his spells - Lords is the classic case, but Old Trafford too.

Jof has the accuracy to be different and world class as a new ball bowler. He can become more of a Curtley Ambrose type bowler - tick along at 88mph, accurately, with occasional aggressive bursts. His Headingly performance shows the way. Actually, the lad on the other side - Rabada - shows the template.

You want a bowler like that - we have one. His name is Mark Wood.
Understand what your saying. Obviously not got a great deal to go on in his test career so far, hope he is capable of bowling long spells. Be a quick attack with him and Wood in the side
 

mackembhoy

Striker
This for me. I'm not really a Curran fan. I want him to go back to Surrey and work on his batting - long-term for me, he's more likely to be a batting all-rounder and therefore I'd be trying to encourage him to become the cover and ultimate long-term replacement for Stokesy.


Absolutely not. No. No. No. No.

a) this will break his body and we need more from him.
b) he is on record as saying he doesn't think he is this type of bowler.
c) look at all the times he has hit 92+mph in his short test career. The lad gets faster as his spells go longer, he gets grooved in. He doesn't usually hit top speed until over 5, 6, even 7 of his spells - Lords is the classic case, but Old Trafford too.

Jof has the accuracy to be different and world class as a new ball bowler. He can become more of a Curtley Ambrose type bowler - tick along at 88mph, accurately, with occasional aggressive bursts. His Headingly performance shows the way. Actually, the lad on the other side - Rabada - shows the template.

You want a bowler like that - we have one. His name is Mark Wood.
Not like England to ruin a fast bowler. You're spot on about archer

You're wrong about Curran mind. Got plenty of potential to be a jimmy/philander type bowler, both of those were not at the peak of their powers till mid to late 20s. Both getting even better into their 30s

Curran is 21 and played 65 first class games. Was averaging less than 30 till maharaj was spanking it everywhere.
 
Understand what your saying. Obviously not got a great deal to go on in his test career so far, hope he is capable of bowling long spells. Be a quick attack with him and Wood in the side
I want to see what that looks like: can't be keeping Curran in the team out of niceties if we have a chance to take a look at a pace attack like that on a helpful surface.
Not like England to ruin a fast bowler. You're spot on about archer

You're wrong about Curran mind. Got plenty of potential to be a jimmy/philander type bowler, both of those were not at the peak of their powers till mid to late 20s. Both getting even better into their 30s

Curran is 21 and played 65 first class games. Was averaging less than 30 till maharaj was spanking it everywhere.
He's a good competitor - but I don't see how he gets to the admittedly exalted levels of those bowlers. Nowhere near.

For one, we are talking some of the most accurate bowlers in the history of the game. Anyone who has been successful at 78mph (and Anderson is more like an 83mph bowler, which makes a big difference) has had ludicrous accuracy. Philander, McGrath - we are talking the greats. But usually they have something else too. So Anderson - swing. Philander - bowls a heavy ball, like a kind of souped-up Tim Bresnan. McGrath - height and bounce. And and - they are all somewhat taller than Curran.

Tbh, its his height I think that places a ceiling on him, rather than his pace. Chances are he can get quicker. Unlikely he'll get taller.

If I was his bowling coach I would be telling him to try and add 3-4mph and really really work on his mastery of reverse swing. He's unlikely to be a new ball bowler because of the pace/height issues. But if he can master reverse, then he could become really useful as a third seamer perhaps. Waquar Younis wasn't that tall and his action is quite skiddy too. I don't know.
 
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