2 new signings for Durham

[mackem in milan]

As I have said the ECB punishments where way over the top but we need to take responsibility for the clangers we dropped.
The fact is we are a small provincial county who produce excellent local players because first of all our amateur club system which is still as strong as anywhere in the country and secondly the importance the academy is given at the county. I hope that second factor remains as important.

Fair enough, but the ECB should take responsibility for their mistakes in this too but that's never going to happen.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Fair enough, but the ECB should take responsibility for their mistakes in this too but that's never going to happen.

Yeah there was undoubtedly errors on all sides.

 

[GordonMuchallNo1Fan]

Fair enough, but the ECB should take responsibility for their mistakes in this too but that's never going to happen.

They will happily just cream money via the likes of Ben Stokes instead

 

[Voice of fair play]

They will happily just cream money via the likes of Ben Stokes instead

Ben Stokes at the moment is running the crest of a wave, and full of confidence and is simply a brilliant cricketer, able to adapt his game to any game situation the true sign of great player.

 

[GordonMuchallNo1Fan]

Ben Stokes at the moment is running the crest of a wave, and full of confidence and is simply a brilliant cricketer, able to adapt his game to any game situation the true sign of great player.

i know, thanks to durham and himself

 

[Voice of fair play]

i know, thanks to durham and himself

I have no doubt in my mind the innings he played at Headlingly was the best innings I have seen by far, what made it so good for me was how he adapted and played the game situation, he was 2 of about 70 balls which what was needed at the time, then later on his onslaught when the game needed that too.

He read the game situation perfectly and adapted his game to that which is a true sign of a great cricketer for me.

I see on cricket threads when debates are happening about who should be picked for England about who has the best averages etc etc.

But for me averages are only a guide cricket for me is about reading the game situation and seizing the big moments in a game and not many can do that in the world better than Stokes.

He is maturing all the time as a cricketer and could go down as one of the best England have ever produced, if not the very best!

 

[Parkside]

I see on cricket threads when debates are happening about who should be picked for England about who has the best averages etc etc.

But for me averages are only a guide cricket for me is about reading the game situation and seizing the big moments in a game and not many can do that in the world better than Stokes.

Good County Averages aren't a guarantee but they're the best indicator we've got and also a good indicator that they can read game situations at that level. Problem is increasingly higher pressure in standards and in game situations at the higher level. The self appointed experts who claim players will be found wanting at the higher level because of technical faults have been disproved by both Burns and Sibley who have simply adapted within the limits of their ability. Fault in selection has been imo picking on some theoretical concept of technical potential rather than waiting for them to prove that they are statistically good over at least a few seasons.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Good County Averages aren't a guarantee but they're the best indicator we've got and also a good indicator that they can read game situations at that level. Problem is increasingly higher pressure in standards and in game situations at the higher level. The self appointed experts who claim players will be found wanting at the higher level because of technical faults have been disproved by both Burns and Sibley who have simply adapted within the limits of their ability. Fault in selection has been imo picking on some theoretical concept of technical potential rather than waiting for them to prove that they are statistically good over at least a few seasons.

I suppose it works both ways, in selection in the past, players have been picked on their averages such as players like Ramprakash and Hick who were superb at county level and a lot better average than say Trescothick and Vaughan yet no where near as successful.

However you right too other players with possible technical faults and good averages have been successful as well at test level, so guess no perfect way for selection and that’s why selectors have a job rather than just picking the players with the best county championship averages.

I totally agree with Burns but not sure about Sibley yet tbh, he has played on very flat pitches against a bowling attack very much below par for me, where as Burns played very well in English conditions in the Ashes against a very good bowling attack on top of their game, not sure Sibley would have been anywhere near as good against the Aussie attack,but that’s opinion and that’s why selection sometime diffcult.

My point was I prefer as a cricket watcher somebody who can adapt their game to the game situation when needed rather than just playing the same way all the time, and not many as good as Stokes for that.
I think you right the difference now between county level and test level is massive and that is a problem deciding whether somebody can make the step up and of course averages have to be a guide,

 

[NorthCountryBoy]

Ammon was reporting in the Times that Kolpaks will no longer be eligible from 2021 if Brexit goes as expected.

Nothing on Cricinfo though which makes me think it mustn’t be that seismic.

How would this affect the likes of the Durham lads and Simon Harmer?

 

[Parkside]

I suppose it works both ways, in selection in the past, players have been picked on their averages such as players like Ramprakash and Hick who were superb at county level and a lot better average than say Trescothick and Vaughan yet no where near as successful.

However you right too other players with possible technical faults and good averages have been successful as well at test level, so guess no perfect way for selection and that’s why selectors have a job rather than just picking the players with the best county championship averages.

I totally agree with Burns but not sure about Sibley yet tbh, he has played on very flat pitches against a bowling attack very much below par for me, where as Burns played very well in English conditions in the Ashes against a very good bowling attack on top of their game, not sure Sibley would have been anywhere near as good against the Aussie attack,but that’s opinion and that’s why selection sometime diffcult.

My point was I prefer as a cricket watcher somebody who can adapt their game to the game situation when needed rather than just playing the same way all the time, and not many as good as Stokes for that.
I think you right the difference now between county level and test level is massive and that is a problem deciding whether somebody can make the step up and of course averages have to be a guide,

Yes, but those qualities didn't come to Stokes overnight, although they might just have after he took stock of himself after Bristolgate.
I'd persist with Sibley, there are signs he'll adapt more fully, his job anyway is to creare occupy he's been told.
Not so sure that Saffer attack was that bad mind, just wasn't like that 4 man top Aussie attack playing on green uns.

Ammon was reporting in the Times that Kolpaks will no longer be eligible from 2021 if Brexit goes as expected.

Nothing on Cricinfo though which makes me think it mustn’t be that seismic.

How would this affect the likes of the Durham lads and Simon Harmer?

The Kolpak deal expires in June 2020 anyway and there was no guarantee it would have been renewed. Bahernian isn't a kolpak, he's on an "ancestral visa " , presumably meaning he has British ancestry, whilst Bedingham is only on a 1 year deal anyway.

 

[mackembhoy]

Yes, but those qualities didn't come to Stokes overnight, although they might just have after he took stock of himself after Bristolgate.
I'd persist with Sibley, there are signs he'll adapt more fully, his job anyway is to creare occupy he's been told.
Not so sure that Saffer attack was that bad mind, just wasn't like that 4 man top Aussie attack playing on green uns.

The Kolpak deal expires in June 2020 anyway and there was no guarantee it would have been renewed. Bahernian isn't a kolpak, he's on an "ancestral visa " , presumably meaning he has British ancestry, whilst Bedingham is only on a 1 year deal anyway.

Bedingham is here on an ancestral visa.

So feck knows what happens with Behardien @NorthCountryBoy

 

[brandon]

It’s quite complicated, but most of the players who would be termed ‘kolpak’ in the press or by us lot on here - aren’t actually kolpak.

Some loopholes will be closed with Brexit, but it won’t stop Saffers coming completely - after all, why would it? South Africa isn’t in the EU, nor has it ever been

 

[Parkside]

Bedingham is here on an ancestral visa.

So feck knows what happens with Behardien @NorthCountryBoy

Yes,that's correct. Behardien will be 38 when his contract expires , I'd have been concerned if he'd been given a contract longer than that. Not too concerned that that Bedingham has only a 1 year contract. Leaves room for the likes of Bell and Steel if they develop in the next year.

 

[mackembhoy]

It’s quite complicated, but most of the players who would be termed ‘kolpak’ in the press or by us lot on here - aren’t actually kolpak.

Some loopholes will be closed with Brexit, but it won’t stop Saffers coming completely - after all, why would it? South Africa isn’t in the EU, nor has it ever been

Yeah but the loophole means they don't have to play as overseas players.

They will after this season. We've given behardien a 2 year deal when unless he plays as an overseas next season I'm not sure how he stays.

Do we really want our overseas pro to a be a 37 year old?

 

[brandon]

Yeah but the loophole means they don't have to play as overseas players.

That’s not the case necessarily, which is what I was trying to allude to.

They can play as ‘Englishmen’ if their ‘ancestral heritage’ allows it.

I’ve no idea whether that applies to the two lads we’ve signed, it was more a generalisation of the wider point of kolpak not being all encompassing anyway with regard ‘foreign’ players being able to play as Englishmen.

Seeing as both of these players have stated their desire to become ‘naturalised’ Englishmen anyway, I’m hazarding a guess that whatever passport or ancestry they hold - it’ll be enough to allow them to gain that naturalisation.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Yes, but those qualities didn't come to Stokes overnight, although they might just have after he took stock of himself after Bristolgate.
I'd persist with Sibley, there are signs he'll adapt more fully, his job anyway is to creare occupy he's been told.
Not so sure that Saffer attack was that bad mind, just wasn't like that 4 man top Aussie attack playing on green uns.

The Kolpak deal expires in June 2020 anyway and there was no guarantee it would have been renewed. Bahernian isn't a kolpak, he's on an "ancestral visa " , presumably meaning he has British ancestry, whilst Bedingham is only on a 1 year deal anyway.

Yeah I would persist with Sibley too, as he has done enough to deserve that, was just making the point that he is not yet proven and the combination of very flat wickets and the South African bowling attack as opposed to the Aussies was a major factor in his relative success imo, don’t think the South African attack is bad on paper, just think their bowlers didn’t bowl well in that series, Philander for example was a diffrent bowler after that first test on flat wickets.