Sunderland Hooligans

[essayfc]

No argument on Athens. I was there witnessed it first hand and the behaviour of some fans was nothing short of disgraceful.

Again there were lots of other factors including the 'check points'. You could just wave anything and it worked. Also the way the club distributed the tickets was out of order and due to the ridiculous allocation thousands missed out. Forgeries were rife and many people chanced it.

Isn't it strange how Heysul was the fault of a crumbling stadium, Hillsboro was the fault of the police but because there was no disaster at Athens then it's safe to say that the fans behaviour was disgraceful. Of course had there been problems you had a handy scapegoat ready with the 'check points'.
Everyone is getting hung up about the word hooligan when the key word is behaviour. The reason why we have had fences, all seater stadiums, away fans banned, alcohol bans on trains etc etc is the authorities responding to a deterioration of behaviour at and going to football matches. Whether some people like it or not the behaviour they describe on here has led to all the above restrictions being put in place.
I have no doubt that the police made mistakes at Hillsboro, but who or what caused them to make those mistakes. It seems to me that some people want to behave in a way that creates problems for others and therefore the police but then complain when the police fail to deal adequately with it.

 

[RTRsBM]

i have pm'd dirty bristow as i am seriously pissed off at his post. if i cost him money i will pay him today. suprised he has not contacted me before. have bought tickets on here many times and dont need someone calling my reputation into question

 

[Riviera]

Locke's SAFC

As I said, I'm not going to go round in circles with this as everyone has a view that I doubt will ever change.

However, as I rate you as a fan, so I just wanted to clear something up.
If you read back I've said that certain Sunderland matches could have gone badly wrong because of the yobbish behaviour of our fans, me and you included I'd imagine.

All I'm saying is that the Liverpool fans, at that time, had a reputation for trying to get their own way with various things and I can't believe they were totally blameless.

There's a fine line between yobbish behaviour and hooliganism that the general public probably can't see. We can because we've been to this type of game but we all know we've pushed our luck at times.

That luck ran out for Liverpool at Hillsborough.

Isn't it strange how Heysul was the fault of a crumbling stadium, Hillsboro was the fault of the police but because there was no disaster at Athens then it's safe to say that the fans behaviour was disgraceful. Of course had there been problems you had a handy scapegoat ready with the 'check points'.
Everyone is getting hung up about the word hooligan when the key word is behaviour. The reason why we have had fences, all seater stadiums, away fans banned, alcohol bans on trains etc etc is the authorities responding to a deterioration of behaviour at and going to football matches. Whether some people like it or not the behaviour they describe on here has led to all the above restrictions being put in place.
I have no doubt that the police made mistakes at Hillsboro, but who or what caused them to make those mistakes. It seems to me that some people want to behave in a way that creates problems for others and therefore the police but then complain when the police fail to deal adequately with it.

This.

 

[dirty bristow]

i have pm'd dirty bristow as i am seriously pissed off at his post. if i cost him money i will pay him today. suprised he has not contacted me before. have bought tickets on here many times and dont need someone calling my reputation into question

Can you not f***ing read. ?
I have said you have paid but I don't expect to be called a prick after I helped you out and trusted you.
is that simple enough?


Today, 10:58 AM #677
dirty bristow
Midfield

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Join Date: Nov 2009

Default Re: Sunderland Hooligans
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTRsBM View Post
if you lost £38 i will send you it today. i had tickets sorted but was in hospital. i think you have the wrong person. people on here will confirm i pay for tickets
No, you did send the money but I did it all on trust. Now I am a prick. Fuck you TS.
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[Teed]

Wasn't going to post on this thread again
but I'd just like to thank
Riviera
essayfc
Locke's SAFC, for putting my original point over far better than I ever could!

As I said, I'm not going to go round in circles with this as everyone has a view that I doubt will ever change.

However, as I rate you as a fan, so I just wanted to clear something up.
If you read back I've said that certain Sunderland matches could have gone badly wrong because of the yobbish behaviour of our fans, me and you included I'd imagine.

All I'm saying is that the Liverpool fans, at that time, had a reputation for trying to get their own way with various things and I can't believe they were totally blameless.

There's a fine line between yobbish behaviour and hooliganism that the general public probably can't see. We can because we've been to this type of game but we all know we've pushed our luck at times.

That luck ran out for Liverpool at Hillsborough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by essayfc
Isn't it strange how Heysul was the fault of a crumbling stadium, Hillsboro was the fault of the police but because there was no disaster at Athens then it's safe to say that the fans behaviour was disgraceful. Of course had there been problems you had a handy scapegoat ready with the 'check points'.
Everyone is getting hung up about the word hooligan when the key word is behaviour. The reason why we have had fences, all seater stadiums, away fans banned, alcohol bans on trains etc etc is the authorities responding to a deterioration of behaviour at and going to football matches. Whether some people like it or not the behaviour they describe on here has led to all the above restrictions being put in place.
I have no doubt that the police made mistakes at Hillsboro, but who or what caused them to make those mistakes. It seems to me that some people want to behave in a way that creates problems for others and therefore the police but then complain when the police fail to deal adequately with it.

This.
__________________

I think people are confusing the word Hooligan, with the word FIRM

Hooligan from Wiki

Hooliganism refers to unruly, destructive, aggressive and bullying behaviour. Such behaviour is commonly associated with sports fans, particularly supporters of association football.

Abnormal behaviour to any normal person, but most of us have been guilty at some time and regretted it after the event I would Imagine?

A FIRM, regards this as normal behaviour.
These idiots see football as some form of tribal warfare and behave like this at every opportunity, then brag about it later.

 

[SW-Durham Mackem]

Why were there fences up then?:roll:

To stop picth invasions and keep fans segregated?

I wonder how many people died before the authorities (not football hooligans) decided to put fences up due to pitch invasions...in hindsight it was a pretty poor decision on their part.

Hooligans still had no part in Hillsborough anyway.

 

[Teed]

To stop picth invasions and keep fans segregated?

I wonder how many people died before the authorities (not football hooligans) decided to put fences up due to pitch invasions...in hindsight it was a pretty poor decision on their part.

Hooligans still had no part in Hillsborough anyway.

:roll: You just don't get it do you!

 

[SW-Durham Mackem]

:roll: You just don't get it do you!

Judging by your posts on this thread i was thinking exactly the same about you.

 

[essayfc]

To stop picth invasions and keep fans segregated?

I wonder how many people died before the authorities (not football hooligans) decided to put fences up due to pitch invasions...in hindsight it was a pretty poor decision on their part.

Hooligans still had no part in Hillsborough anyway.

I think what Bristow is trying to say is that the fences were there because of hooliganism in general. Had there not been countless incidences of football violence throughout the 70s and 80s there would not have been fences at Hillsborough and consequently 96 people would be alive today. Think about that while you are boasting about your exploits on this thread.

 

[THELORDROWELL]

I can't speak for everyone but i know for a fact that loads of SAFC have travelled to 'sold out' games over the years and tried to get in the away end/home end. On a smaller scale (maybe not in some cases) but its relevant all the same - thats not to say what these fans did was correct but to label them as hooligans is crazy imo.

The Forest fans should of been allocated the leppings lane end (the smaller end) instead of LFC! that was another mistake.

The Liverpool fans who rushed in probably thought they were heading towards the terracing at the front of the leppings lane, they wouldn't of had any idea what it was like at the front or which pen was getting full!

The Cardiff match in the 79/80 season is a prime example, we battered that f***ing gate til they ended up opening it, nobody killed there and if I remember right that was pay on the day.

 

[Riviera]

Please replace all my mentions 'hooligans' with 'yobs' if the word hooligan causes offence.

 

[Deleted member 10594]

The Cardiff match in the 79/80 season is a prime example, we battered that f***ing gate til they ended up opening it, nobody killed there and if I remember right that was pay on the day.

correct as stated before by Barry Siddall who had to climb the floodlight to avoid the crush

 

[Riviera]

:roll: You just don't get it do you!

You're trying to make this issue black&white which is as far from reality as can be .......... trying to condense decades of crowd control and fans behaviour into a handy bite-sized chunk isn't possible.

The Cardiff match in the 79/80 season is a prime example, we battered that f***ing gate til they ended up opening it, nobody killed there and if I remember right that was pay on the day.

They were huge iron gates with a mass of Sunderland on one side and a couple of dozen stewards on the other ........ the way they were rocking back and forth was unreal and if they'd gone it would've been carnage.

I was there and that was yobbish behaviour but I thought it was fine at the time after the distance we'd travelled, the importance of the game and the dreadful organisation on the day ....... if those gates had gone and crushed the stewards I would've been partly to blame.

At the time I thought it was fine.

 

[SW-Durham Mackem]

I think what Bristow is trying to say is that the fences were there because of hooliganism in general. Had there not been countless incidences of football violence throughout the 70s and 80s there would not have been fences at Hillsborough and consequently 96 people would be alive today. Think about that while you are boasting about your exploits on this thread.

I know exactly what he is saying..hooligans in-directly caused Hillsborough because the authorities put up fences because of them. Hooligans played no part in the incident its self whatsoever so should take no responsibility for it.

I think you need to read this thread again because i haven't once boasted about anything.

 

[THELORDROWELL]

You're trying to make this issue black&white which is as far from reality as can be .......... trying to condense decades of crowd control and fans behaviour into a handy bite-sized chunk isn't possible.

Yer totally wrong marra it was security fences that killed those people at Hillsborough. Just thinking about a story me old man told me about the Man U cup replay at Roker in 64 he wouldn't let me go but he went down. He reckons when those gates burst open at the Roker end he was carried in, his feet were off the deck and it was just one massive surge. The official gate is 47,000 thousand but by all estimates there were over 80,000 in the ground that night.
They weren't hooligans just supporters desperate to see the match and if there'd been those f***ing fences up there'd have been a lot of dead people in Sunderland.
Hooligans may cause problems but the authorities respnses to them cause far worse ones.

 

[Teed]

You're trying to make this issue black&white which is as far from reality as can be .......... trying to condense decades of crowd control and fans behaviour into a handy bite-sized chunk isn't possible.

I think most know the roll hooliganism (or just general ignorance) as played in society! If idiots adhered to speed restrictions, there'd be no need for speed humps, but we all have to suffer them.
My gripe's with the stupid buggers that glorify these idiots!
hence my initial post! the fact that my follow up posts may have been
a little abstract didn't help my argument, but like I said you and others helped to shed light on my intentions.
anyway! I'm bored with this subject, farewell mon ami!!..

 

[THELORDROWELL]

You're trying to make this issue black&white which is as far from reality as can be .......... trying to condense decades of crowd control and fans behaviour into a handy bite-sized chunk isn't possible.



They were huge iron gates with a mass of Sunderland on one side and a couple of dozen stewards on the other ........ the way they were rocking back and forth was unreal and if they'd gone it would've been carnage.

I was there and that was yobbish behaviour but I thought it was fine at the time after the distance we'd travelled, the importance of the game and the dreadful organisation on the day ....... if those gates had gone and crushed the stewards I would've been partly to blame.

At the time I thought it was fine.

Again disagree, it was poor organisation on the part of Cardiff City FC they must have known that we'd turn up in huge numbers and yet the turnstiles weren't ready for the volume of supporters. I've said on another thread, when we got there that day the car park wasn't even f***ing open there was a barrier across and people were sitting in their cars waiting, the lads in our Transit got out and rove the barrier off and everyone drove in, if that's hooliganism Ces't la vie.

 

[Riviera]

Yer totally wrong marra it was security fences that killed those people at Hillsborough. Just thinking about a story me old man told me about the Man U cup replay at Roker in 64 he wouldn't let me go but he went down. He reckons when those gates burst open at the Roker end he was carried in, his feet were off the deck and it was just one massive surge. The official gate is 47,000 thousand but by all estimates there were over 80,000 in the ground that night.
They weren't hooligans just supporters desperate to see the match and if there'd been those f***ing fences up there'd have been a lot of dead people in Sunderland.
Hooligans may cause problems but the authorities respnses to them cause far worse ones.

I see what you're seeing and it's probably my fault for not explaining myself properly ...... I'm agreeing that the kind of behaviour you describe isn't viscious and, as I've said, I've been as bad as many people.

All I'm saying is that the behaviour of some of the Liverpool fans was as yobbish and irresponsible as we've been in the past. If the gates had gone at Cardiff I'd have been partly to blame if there'd been deaths.

 

[Icepick]

I think most know the roll hooliganism (or just general ignorance) as played in society! If idiots adhered to speed restrictions, there'd be no need for speed humps, but we all have to suffer them.
My gripe's with the stupid buggers that glorify these idiots!
hence my initial post! the fact that my follow up posts may have been
a little abstract didn't help my argument, but like I said you and others helped to shed light on my intentions.
anyway! I'm bored with this subject, farewell mon ami!!..

Sick of reading the bravado crap in this thread myself mate
Makes some of you feel 'geet hard' to post in this thread does it?
Hopefully most posters on here go to support the club and obey the laws of the land
Can we stick to football maybe as we've got an important game on Monday night

 

[SW-Durham Mackem]

Sick of reading the bravado crap in this thread myself mate
Makes some of you feel 'geet hard' to post in this thread does it?
Hopefully most posters on here go to support the club and obey the laws of the land
Can we stick to football maybe as we've got an important game on Monday night

No ones making you read it.

I don't think its making anyone feel 'geet hard'..people are just sharing old stories.