SAFC - Fan Ban & Ticket Cancellations

[the sleeping giant]

Regards RAWA..... look at the press coverage Spirit of Shankly have had over the increases in Liverpool season tickets, of the Everton Fans advisory group have had over Sky repeatedly scheduling their games in the Monday evening slot.

The group (of which I have been a member from the beginning) was created whilst we were rudderless in L1. Their remit (and the expectations / issues in the club) has changed.

Communication to their members is fundamental. If they are working hard behind the scenes they need to give a flavour of what that looks like, and when we expect further updates.

I appreciate it is run on a voluntary basis but this is the easy stuff.

What this saga has highlighted is the lack of accountability by the club for what looks an horrendous ticketing decision.

No way should all of the 65 should have been penalised in such a draconian manner.

What is needed is a supporters’ representative/champion that can take issues to the club. I know that Leeds United have such a similar representative in place, Ray Fell, and by all accounts works very well.

IF RAWA is supposed to our fans champion, then it appears to have failed miserably those 65.

I was told recently by a Leeds fans that Ray Fell is sadly no longer alive but his legacy is the strength that the branches have in working with the club to ensure they harness the importance of long-term loyalty. There's been a long-term expectation of that and the clubs fans aren't in a mood to relinquish it (their current 'issue' is the expected increase in capacity and the proposals for subsequent prices rise / move towards more premium seats).

We don't have (or have rarely had) that strength, and I'd suggest both fans and club will suffer for it unless brought closer together.

 

[ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK]

I was told recently by a Leeds fans that Ray Fell is sadly no longer alive but his legacy is the strength that the branches have in working with the club to ensure they harness the importance of long-term loyalty. There's been a long-term expectation of that and the clubs fans aren't in a mood to relinquish it (their current 'issue' is the expected increase in capacity and the proposals for subsequent prices rise / move towards more premium seats).

We don't have (or have rarely had) that strength, and I'd suggest both fans and club will suffer for it unless brought closer together.

Aye I read about him earlier when his name got mentioned

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[Definitely Maybe]

Regards RAWA..... look at the press coverage Spirit of Shankly have had over the increases in Liverpool season tickets, of the Everton Fans advisory group have had over Sky repeatedly scheduling their games in the Monday evening slot.

The group (of which I have been a member from the beginning) was created whilst we were rudderless in L1. Their remit (and the expectations / issues in the club) has changed.

Communication to their members is fundamental. If they are working hard behind the scenes they need to give a flavour of what that looks like, and when we expect further updates.

I appreciate it is run on a voluntary basis but this is the easy stuff.



I was told recently by a Leeds fans that Ray Fell is sadly no longer alive but his legacy is the strength that the branches have in working with the club to ensure they harness the importance of long-term loyalty. There's been a long-term expectation of that and the clubs fans aren't in a mood to relinquish it (their current 'issue' is the expected increase in capacity and the proposals for subsequent prices rise / move towards more premium seats).

We don't have (or have rarely had) that strength, and I'd suggest both fans and club will suffer for it unless brought closer together.

This is a great post and I agree.

This isn't a knock on RAWA or Becs but the dynamic within the club has changed over the past year or so.

I think it would be fair to say that, for most of the past 8 years or so since it was formed, we had key departments within the club woefully understaffed, a level of incompetence in senior positions and failings on the pitch meant that the club had to at least maintain the facade of keeping fans on side, even if actions didn't usually back that up.

Since promotion and probably going back since the BCB debacle before that, some areas within the club have made huge strides to really build that relationship - the Hummel partnership for example and a lot of David Bruce's work - while everything on the pitch has been fantastic. But other areas seem to be actively against the fans and the ticket demand and waiting lists have allowed them to drop that facade completely. It seems like they're looking to exploit every opportunity to fleece us and make things needlessly complicated. In the past they often tried to push their luck but would back down if there was an element of dissent but it really does feel like we're just a dispensible customer who would be replaced by someone from the waiting list now.

The club and fans should work hand in hand and it should be clear to the club what the boundaries are and what fans are willing to accept. We don't need to be involved in every decision as that would be silly but I think there's a very real possibility that fans who have been there throughout the very dark days become priced out if STs keep increasing at the rate they are for example. Regardless of what other clubs charge, the North East is economically poorer and improvements on the pitch are of no consolation if fans from L1 can't afford to go to the ground to see it (just as example). It should be clear that the treatment of the 65 is unacceptable, as is the current issues around seat moves and downgrading from hospitality to GA.

Not sure what the answer is but we need stronger collective representation. There's been loads of criticism of branches over the years and the 'tea and biscuits' meetings but some good has come out of them - the fallout from the BCB was arguably the catalyst for significant change. But what hope have we got if the club are intent on banning branch members anyway?

 

[DonaldDownTheWing]

The individuals involved in RAWA are great people and good at what they do. DR works at the FSA for example.

Where RAWA falls down, in my view, is their social media/comms. They could be doing all sorts behind the scenes, which most will be in favour of, but they don’t publicise it enough.

I get the impression none of them are social media savvy and it takes forever for anything to make it into the public domain.

 

[the sleeping giant]

This is a great post and I agree.

This isn't a knock on RAWA or Becs but the dynamic within the club has changed over the past year or so.

I think it would be fair to say that, for most of the past 8 years or so since it was formed, we had key departments within the club woefully understaffed, a level of incompetence in senior positions and failings on the pitch meant that the club had to at least maintain the facade of keeping fans on side, even if actions didn't usually back that up.

Since promotion and probably going back since the BCB debacle before that, some areas within the club have made huge strides to really build that relationship - the Hummel partnership for example and a lot of David Bruce's work - while everything on the pitch has been fantastic. But other areas seem to be actively against the fans and the ticket demand and waiting lists have allowed them to drop that facade completely. It seems like they're looking to exploit every opportunity to fleece us and make things needlessly complicated. In the past they often tried to push their luck but would back down if there was an element of dissent but it really does feel like we're just a dispensible customer who would be replaced by someone from the waiting list now.

The club and fans should work hand in hand and it should be clear to the club what the boundaries are and what fans are willing to accept. We don't need to be involved in every decision as that would be silly but I think there's a very real possibility that fans who have been there throughout the very dark days become priced out if STs keep increasing at the rate they are for example. Regardless of what other clubs charge, the North East is economically poorer and improvements on the pitch are of no consolation if fans from L1 can't afford to go to the ground to see it (just as example). It should be clear that the treatment of the 65 is unacceptable, as is the current issues around seat moves and downgrading from hospitality to GA.

Not sure what the answer is but we need stronger collective representation. There's been loads of criticism of branches over the years and the 'tea and biscuits' meetings but some good has come out of them - the fallout from the BCB was arguably the catalyst for significant change. But what hope have we got if the club are intent on banning branch members anyway?

I could not agree more

The individuals involved in RAWA are great people and good at what they do. DR works at the FSA for example.

Where RAWA falls down, in my view, is their social media/comms. They could be doing all sorts behind the scenes, which most will be in favour of, but they don’t publicise it enough.

I get the impression none of them are social media savvy and it takes forever for anything to make it into the public domain.

I fully endorse this, too.

My own feeling (and its just a guess) is that these guys are highly capable but spare time is an issue for them.

There's 2 choices - either they stand aside if others think they can do better (but, as pointed out, there's unlikely to be a long queue).

OR, they take in more help from a wider cross-section of the fanbase. I'd suggest the latter is the way to go.

 

[Roker Scoreboard]

The individuals involved in RAWA are great people and good at what they do. DR works at the FSA for example.

Where RAWA falls down, in my view, is their social media/comms. They could be doing all sorts behind the scenes, which most will be in favour of, but they don’t publicise it enough.

I get the impression none of them are social media savvy and it takes forever for anything to make it into the public domain.

My main thought on RAWA and other groups that meet with the Club, is the unwillingness to openly push back when the need requires and more about not rocking the boat.

 

[DonaldDownTheWing]

My main thought on RAWA and other groups that meet with the Club, is the unwillingness to openly push back when the need requires and more about not rocking the boat.

I’ve sat in the meetings and watched DR (and others) have a pretty firm back and forth with various SAFC reps.

They are diplomatic though. They don’t air their laundry in public. On the whole I agree with this approach, but when there’s an info vacuum, people just think they’re doing nothing.

 

[Tommy1973]

The individuals involved in RAWA are great people and good at what they do. DR works at the FSA for example.

Where RAWA falls down, in my view, is their social media/comms. They could be doing all sorts behind the scenes, which most will be in favour of, but they don’t publicise it enough.

I get the impression none of them are social media savvy and it takes forever for anything to make it into the public domain.

Don't publicise enough .they haven't done anything .we bloody 4 weeks in from nufc game .the club aren't investigating anything they don't give a shit .they never contacted any of the 65 .still to this day .this thread keeps going because of what happened to paul.
My 9 year old son can just about do a social media post .it takes 2 minutes of anybody day .I can see 3 massive issues with the club at the minute.the club charging people 20 quid to move season tickets .banning the most loyal fans .people in flounders bar who had season tickets before not being able to afford it anymore so wanting to go back season holders to being told they have to go to back of que.what is going on at our club ffs

 

[North Yorks Mackem]

This thread is mental now. Needs to be canned. Aside from a few individuals who are constantly posting in the thread, and a few who are alleging they know every single detail, the vast majoriy still don't have all of the facts and I doubt ever will. Much of the information posted in here is hearsay. It just goes round in circles with the same few and posts get deleted / changed every 30 seconds whenever anyone else gets involved.

There's endless posts about what people, and the club, have and haven't done without a single bit of substance for or against aside from the official statement from the club (which is only one side of the argument).

Don't disagree that things have started to go round on circles a bit.

But I also dont think it should be forgotten about, and canning such posts would help to achieve that. There's something fundamentally wrong with how the ticket office is acting. This is a message board, and is the perfect place to discuss those issues, and how they can be addressed.

 

[DonaldDownTheWing]

Don't publicise enough .they haven't done anything .we bloody 4 weeks in from nufc game .the club aren't investigating anything they don't give a shit .they never contacted any of the 65 .still to this day .this thread keeps going because of what happened to paul.
My 9 year old son can just about do a social media post .it takes 2 minutes of anybody day .I can see 3 massive issues with the club at the minute.the club charging people 20 quid to move season tickets .banning the most loyal fans .people in flounders bar who had season tickets before not being able to afford it anymore so wanting to go back season holders to being told they have to go to back of que.what is going on at our club ffs

They may have done something. They may have established the facts and discovered that there’s more to the story than we know. They may have done nothing.

I can’t know which of them is true as their comms are poor.

 

[Roker Scoreboard]

I’ve sat in the meetings and watched DR (and others) have a pretty firm back and forth with various SAFC reps.

They are diplomatic though. They don’t air their laundry in public. On the whole I agree with this approach, but when there’s an info vacuum, people just think they’re doing nothing.

It's fine to be diplomatic but comes across sometimes as this is the statement that's going out whether you like it or not. So unless RAWA agree with what has been published, they should openly disagree and push back.

 

[Mowgli]

They may have done something. They may have established the facts and discovered that there’s more to the story than we know. They may have done nothing.

I can’t know which of them is true as their comms are poor.

Should the rep not also be getting briefed and coming on here to actually give us some info

 

[DonaldDownTheWing]

Should the rep not also be getting briefed and coming on here to actually give us some info

Yes, the flow of info from RAWA to the fans needs to be better in all ways.

 

[the sleeping giant]

They are diplomatic though. They don’t air their laundry in public. On the whole I agree with this approach, but when there’s an info vacuum, people just think they’re doing nothing.

And there’s the problem.

They are there to do something but allow a perception to gather that they’re doing ‘nothing’.

You can be diplomatic & also transparent.

The club may not wish for dirty laundry to be washed in public, or they may ask for discretion on some matters…. But a supporters group (without being on some self-important crusade) need to give an overview of their position and activities being undertaken on fans behalf.

It may be they cannot deal with an individuals case, but they SHOULD be taking examples from this board (amongst other places) to the club & asking what is being done to improve matters.

It’s what they’re there to do and if the club have a problem with them highlighting such concerns, then we have a much bigger issue to address.

 

[krisread]

I can see 3 massive issues with the club at the minute.the club charging people 20 quid to move season tickets .

I'm sure it cost me about £35 to move seats 20 years ago!

 

[NorthCountryBoy]

I’ve sat in the meetings and watched DR (and others) have a pretty firm back and forth with various SAFC reps.

They are diplomatic though. They don’t air their laundry in public. On the whole I agree with this approach, but when there’s an info vacuum, people just think they’re doing nothing.

This is my experience too. RAWA aren’t patsys, and data protection presumably limits what they can say about one man’s issue (I appreciate there’s the 65 thing too).

On this particular one I would hope that additional pressure is put on SAFC though. They’ve issued a punishment which is way OTT and has a negative ripple effect on many. It shouldn’t just be accepted because T&Cs haven’t technically been broken by the club.

In three elections for the SMB RAWA post over the years I think we’ve had a total of seven people throw their hat in the ring. If people really do want to have their voice heard the platform is there the next time it goes up….

 

[Essayeffsee]

Not on topic but...

Ive just seen a thread on X about someone who has a corporate ticket and being pushed to back of queue if dont renew.

They say contacted @Becs and RAWA with no response. Given this thread is monitored can someone contact him please? (@thediddyman1 is his x handle)

 

[jarrowdiamond]

Not on topic but...

Ive just seen a thread on X about someone who has a corporate ticket and being pushed to back of queue if dont renew.

They say contacted @Becs and RAWA with no response. Given this thread is monitored can someone contact him please? (@thediddyman1 is his x handle)

That's what they've told all corporate fans, it's disgusting.

 

[Lagger]

That's what they've told all corporate fans, it's disgusting.

Pathetic if true

 

[Fact Hunt]

Pathetic if true

Why do you say this? There have been numerous people throughout the thread that’s said exactly the same. Do you think folk are making this up?