ID checks for away tickets

[19FTM73]

I can see a potential £250 outlay with potentially nothing to show for it but 5 BCP to be a difficult pill to swallow for some fans

For the next season the club need to be cracking down on the reselling etc. Then see where we are at the end of next season

Also I don't see why branches should get any preferential treatment - they are already part of the problem without guaranteeing them enough tickets to fill a bus irrespective of whether or not they have the right number of people on the right points. As others have said, if you don't have enough members to fill your bus then you shouldn't be operating a branch

Wasn't sure where to put the post, and move it to the 'Port Vale Tickets' thread.

Yup, £250 is a lot for 5 points and no matches - but same time, they might get a a fair few matches and 10 points. Either way, its a meaningful step on the ladder, without really any other option to do so.

Peeaonally, not so worried about branch buses as I don't use them, but appreciate that they're a part of the wider fabric of the club and our away following. I guess they could just get a smaller bus if the numbers aren't enough for a big bus. Multiple bus sizes are available. But I'd retain the corporate tickets being held back - and maybe add them to the ballot pot to reduce the impact of the 10% on others

 

[Hawkings Boots]

Register in groups of 4 of 5 and either put in a group application where the amount of people in the group wanting to attend must have the average amount of points. So if 3 have 60 points and one 40 you can either apply at 60 points for 3 tickets or wait till it reaches 50 then apply for 4.
It works in my head but their will be pit falls.

As far as i'm aware it is affecting the branches as well.
I travelled to Leeds with my local branch and we had 31 on the coach. If they had the tickets that would of been full and a waiting list.

Sounds like your branch does it properly rather than the ones who have lists of numbers they can use to buy tickets for whoever wants them to fill their bus

 

[19FTM73]

Sorry - not sure what thread to post this on, had it here/then 'port vale tickets'....think it's probably best here. So here it is again.

Suggestion on how to retain benefits for higher point holders while providing an opportunity for people to build points in a fair and practical way:

Current threshold system remains - higher points holders have priority access through phasing. Three year points drop off remains.

10% of tickets for away matches are retained for ballot. Ballot open to those not guaranteed a ticket (phase 2 through to zero point SCHs).

Annual ballot pass needed to enter ballots - bought before start of season, say £40. Fee of, say, £10 to enter ballot for each particular game. Fee generates club income and filters out those without genuine commitment. For all league games, this is a £220 cost per year, plus away cup games. Maybe £250 per year, give or take.

¼ point offered for each ballet entered. This would provide 4.5 points per year (18 away games), plus extra ¾ of a point for every successful ballot. (where you get the full point for attending - has to be scanned).

Add on a couple of cup ballots and a person could earn 5 points min a season if they failed every ballot and cup games drawn away, and we're out in first round....obv more points depending if they were successful in getting tickets through ballot of phases, and for cup runs and home draws.

Over three seasons, a person could build aprox 20-25 points....and be in the running for phase 3, without affecting the top end of points holders.

It would make it harder for those at the lower points end - the 3rd phase (who, by definition, are not the ultra committed higher points holders who've been going to all away games for years etc). But there'e nothing to stop 3rd phasers paying to enter a ballot to retain their points.

Where-as it does provide those with a genuine commitment to start and continue collecting points to do so - will cost them a bit of money and will need to be maintained to move up the ladder over three years.

Doesn't provide any 'unfair' advantage to less committed fans who might fancy an odd away game - they can pay and have a small chance without much downside for anyone else.

Increase the ID checks - with a proper points penalty for those mis-using away tickets. Along with increased use of tech to prevent unauthorised selling.

Provide branches with a number of tickets for general use by the branch to help keep the branch going/fill the bus. This would be capped at max number of tickets....and these tickets could be obtained by reducing tickets held back for 'corporate/family friends'.

Reduce the number of away tickets that are held back for corporate/family and friends. The club can surely ask for/buy and (give/sell) a manageable number from home team corporate if they want to help out their VIPs without disadvantaging the fee paying, normal fan

 

[mackembhoy]

Yeah, only people like you have 'mates'.....

You come across like the sad buggers who claim they never went to University but they went to the 'University of Life' as if people who actually went to University never experienced any 'Life' while they were there.

Both me and the person your having the dig at went to uni and did all our "local" away games together while at uni without season tickets thanks to our branch.

Got to finally see us win away at Bolton after having nee luck as a ST holder going away many times. Rarely got a point off the branch superb days had supporting the lads around the country.

 

[ywcmackem]

Wasn't sure where to put the post, and move it to the 'Port Vale Tickets' thread.

Yup, £250 is a lot for 5 points and no matches - but same time, they might get a a fair few matches and 10 points. Either way, its a meaningful step on the ladder, without really any other option to do so.

Peeaonally, not so worried about branch buses as I don't use them, but appreciate that they're a part of the wider fabric of the club and our away following. I guess they could just get a smaller bus if the numbers aren't enough for a big bus. Multiple bus sizes are available. But I'd retain the corporate tickets being held back - and maybe add them to the ballot pot to reduce the impact of the 10% on others

More and more branches are now coach sharing due to the fact that new measures are restricting numbers. Which is only right.

 

[TradingPlaces]

More and more branches are now coach sharing due to the fact that new measures are restricting numbers. Which is only right.

Exactly this, the branch I travel with is picking up in a couple of Durham villages tomorrow which it never normally does, to help out other branches. Branches sharing buses is going to be the way forward in future, they shouldn’t be getting priority over tickets just because they run a branch.

 

[humbug]

Sounds like your branch does it properly rather than the ones who have lists of numbers they can use to buy tickets for whoever wants them to fill their bus

when i used to travel with the branch many moons ago we needed more than 8 for the bus to be used. if there were less we would just take 2 cars. this only happened a couple of times. the home games would subsidise the aways and the cost was always worked out as to how many were on the bus.
always sticks in my mind going to brentford the first game of the third division season under denis smith. full bus and it was £3 fare.

Yeah, only people like you have 'mates'.....

You come across like the sad buggers who claim they never went to University but they went to the 'University of Life' as if people who actually went to University never experienced any 'Life' while they were there.

being a mate of someone should never be a reason for getting a ticket above someone with more points, as should being a member of a branch. (i'm agreeing with you btw)

 

[mackembhoy]

Sorry - not sure what thread to post this on, had it here/then 'port vale tickets'....think it's probably best here. So here it is again.

Suggestion on how to retain benefits for higher point holders while providing an opportunity for people to build points in a fair and practical way:

Current threshold system remains - higher points holders have priority access through phasing. Three year points drop off remains.

10% of tickets for away matches are retained for ballot. Ballot open to those not guaranteed a ticket (phase 2 through to zero point SCHs).

Annual ballot pass needed to enter ballots - bought before start of season, say £40. Fee of, say, £10 to enter ballot for each particular game. Fee generates club income and filters out those without genuine commitment. For all league games, this is a £220 cost per year, plus away cup games. Maybe £250 per year, give or take.

¼ point offered for each ballet entered. This would provide 4.5 points per year (18 away games), plus extra ¾ of a point for every successful ballot. (where you get the full point for attending - has to be scanned).

Add on a couple of cup ballots and a person could earn 5 points min a season if they failed every ballot and cup games drawn away, and we're out in first round....obv more points depending if they were successful in getting tickets through ballot of phases, and for cup runs and home draws.

Over three seasons, a person could build aprox 20-25 points....and be in the running for phase 3, without affecting the top end of points holders.

It would make it harder for those at the lower points end - the 3rd phase (who, by definition, are not the ultra committed higher points holders who've been going to all away games for years etc). But there'e nothing to stop 3rd phasers paying to enter a ballot to retain their points.

Where-as it does provide those with a genuine commitment to start and continue collecting points to do so - will cost them a bit of money and will need to be maintained to move up the ladder over three years.

Doesn't provide any 'unfair' advantage to less committed fans who might fancy an odd away game - they can pay and have a small chance without much downside for anyone else.

Increase the ID checks - with a proper points penalty for those mis-using away tickets. Along with increased use of tech to prevent unauthorised selling.

Provide branches with a number of tickets for general use by the branch to help keep the branch going/fill the bus. This would be capped at max number of tickets....and these tickets could be obtained by reducing tickets held back for 'corporate/family friends'.

Reduce the number of away tickets that are held back for corporate/family and friends. The club can surely ask for/buy and (give/sell) a manageable number from home team corporate if they want to help out their VIPs without disadvantaging the fee paying, normal fan

So your idea is to have people spend at least £230 a year on top of season tickets and match tickets. For the right to have a chance to get all our league away tickets?

Have I got that right? If so thats absolutely mental

 

[DC88]

So your idea is to have people spend at least £230 a year on top of season tickets and match tickets. For the right to have a chance to get all our league away tickets?

Have I got that right? If so thats absolutely mental

And then suggesting people in phase 3 could pay 250 quid as well. These are people who have actually made an effort the last few seasons. It’s a disgrace.

 

[19FTM73]

So your idea is to have people spend at least £230 a year on top of season tickets and match tickets. For the right to have a chance to get all our league away tickets?

Have I got that right? If so thats absolutely mental

You can adjust the cost for the ballot pass and match ballot up or down. Make it £20 and £5 respectively, then you're on £115 quid. Ballot fees could vary within a range depending on the game. All sorts of variations could be applied to the scheme to refine it to get balance between affordability incentive, demand.

But yes, the basic principle is that, to get on the ladder, you pay to enter a ballot. Payment at least covers the clubs costs to run the ballot (plus option to make some £s) and requires that those entering the ballot are genuinely committed to it - limits the volume, increases chance of a ticket.

At the end of the season, worst case you've paid £x amount for 5 ballot points with no games, best case you've paid for a few points less and received full points for some games (that you wouldn't otherwise have had a chance for). End of 3 seasons, likley on 20+ points and having been to at least a proportion of games....and on the edge of phase 3.

What other way would there be for people to get on the ladder, based on some personal commitment, over a reasonable period of time?

And then suggesting people in phase 3 could pay 250 quid as well. These are people who have actually made an effort the last few seasons. It’s a disgrace.

Not sure it's a disgrace....it's a practical solution to create a small opening to enable people to get on the ladder, without a major impact on others.

For those in phase 3 - if they havent got a ticket in phase 3, then they should choose to enter the ballet. So they're not paying the full amount of whatever his charged for 100% of all potential ballets, just when they are not otherwise able to get a ticket. Widens the window for them as well.

 

[Hawkings Boots]

You can adjust the cost for the ballot pass and match ballot up or down. Make it £20 and £5 respectively, then you're on £115 quid. Ballot fees could vary within a range depending on the game. All sorts of variations could be applied to the scheme to refine it to get balance between affordability incentive, demand.

But yes, the basic principle is that, to get on the ladder, you pay to enter a ballot. Payment at least covers the clubs costs to run the ballot (plus option to make some £s) and requires that those entering the ballot are genuinely committed to it - limits the volume, increases chance of a ticket.

At the end of the season, worst case you've paid £x amount for 5 ballot points with no games, best case you've paid for a few points less and received full points for some games (that you wouldn't otherwise have had a chance for). End of 3 seasons, likley on 20+ points and having been to at least a proportion of games....and on the edge of phase 3.

What other way would there be for people to get on the ladder, based on some personal commitment, over a reasonable period of time?

Not sure it's a disgrace....it's a practical solution to create a small opening to enable people to get on the ladder, without a major impact on others.

For those in phase 3 - if they havent got a ticket in phase 3, then they should choose to enter the ballet. So they're not paying the full amount of whatever his charged for 100% of all potential ballets, just when they are not otherwise able to get a ticket. Widens the window for them as well.

OK so what about the people who cannot afford that cost? No aways forever?

Genuinely not ridiculing the idea but pointing out the flaws and arguments you will get back.

 

[Hetty]

They tried the ballot before under Rob Holmes, it went the journey after a while and so did he

 

[mackembhoy]

You can adjust the cost for the ballot pass and match ballot up or down. Make it £20 and £5 respectively, then you're on £115 quid. Ballot fees could vary within a range depending on the game. All sorts of variations could be applied to the scheme to refine it to get balance between affordability incentive, demand.

But yes, the basic principle is that, to get on the ladder, you pay to enter a ballot. Payment at least covers the clubs costs to run the ballot (plus option to make some £s) and requires that those entering the ballot are genuinely committed to it - limits the volume, increases chance of a ticket.

At the end of the season, worst case you've paid £x amount for 5 ballot points with no games, best case you've paid for a few points less and received full points for some games (that you wouldn't otherwise have had a chance for). End of 3 seasons, likley on 20+ points and having been to at least a proportion of games....and on the edge of phase 3.

What other way would there be for people to get on the ladder, based on some personal commitment, over a reasonable period of time?

Not sure it's a disgrace....it's a practical solution to create a small opening to enable people to get on the ladder, without a major impact on others.

For those in phase 3 - if they havent got a ticket in phase 3, then they should choose to enter the ballet. So they're not paying the full amount of whatever his charged for 100% of all potential ballets, just when they are not otherwise able to get a ticket. Widens the window for them as well.

Yeah that idea can fuck right off. Having to pay for a game you don't get to attend should never happen at this club.

Ballots are for the mags and other greedy bastard clubs.

Mad how people want us to become just as bad as other clubs.

The money in the prem should be subsidising match going fans not making it more f***ing expensive.

 

[dancingradio]

Ballot with no cost for a small percentage of tickets makes sense for those with not enough points to have a chance

 

[Hawkings Boots]

Yeah that idea can fuck right off. Having to pay for a game you don't get to attend should never happen at this club.

Ballots are for the mags and other greedy bastard clubs.

Mad how people want us to become just as bad as other clubs.

The money in the prem should be subsidising match going fans not making it more f***ing expensive.

I think part of the issue is that our system is about as good as it gets.

Aways shouldn't be a money spinner

The long and short of it is that the vast majority want to only attend aways now we are in the PL and weren't interested before now

People can keep trying to come up with convoluted ways to change the system to suit them but the upshot of every one is that you piss off fans by taking away their tickets and who have travelled up and down the country over the years and spent a fortune to put them in the hands of people who only want aways now we are in the PL

 

[dancingradio]

I think part of the issue is that our system is about as good as it gets.

Aways shouldn't be a money spinner

The long and short of it is that the vast majority want to only attend aways now we are in the PL and weren't interested before now

People can keep trying to come up with convoluted ways to change the system to suit them but the upshot of every one is that you piss off fans by taking away their tickets and who have travelled up and down the country over the years and spent a fortune to put them in the hands of people who only want aways now we are in the PL

Novelty for everyone will wear off next season anyway I cant see it being as bad as this year

 

[Hawkings Boots]

Ballot with no cost for a small percentage of tickets makes sense for those with not enough points to have a chance

OK - next season there is one ballot for Brighton Away for 150 tickets - Wonder how many suddenly cannot make that date but would be available if it was Man Utd away

Novelty for everyone will wear off next season anyway I cant see it being as bad as this year

Yep I aint rushing back to, for example, West Ham (if they stay up)

My time and money has been dominated this year by aways etc. And I don't fancy doing it next year

 

[dancingradio]

OK - next season there is one ballot for Brighton Away for 150 tickets - Wonder how many suddenly cannot make that date but would be available if it was Man Utd away

Yep I aint rushing back to, for example, West Ham (if they stay up)

My time and money has been dominated this year by aways etc. And I don't fancy doing it next year

There will be loads the same

 

[Kumbuka]

OK - next season there is one ballot for Brighton Away for 150 tickets - Wonder how many suddenly cannot make that date but would be available if it was Man Utd away

Yep I aint rushing back to, for example, West Ham (if they stay up)

My time and money has been dominated this year by aways etc. And I don't fancy doing it next year

100%. I think people are over estimating the popularity of visiting Brighton / West Ham again.

This year I’ll do every away game bar Everton in the cup when I was in holiday. Mainly because it’s a novelty being in the prem, and we’ve had a great season.

There’s no chance I’ll do every away game next season, if it means another hotel in Liverpool for a night game, using annual leave etc.

We’ve also had a lot of 3pm aways this year which has made it easier than I expected. Throw in a few Monday nights or Sunday evenings etc. and demand will drop.

 

[TradingPlaces]

OK - next season there is one ballot for Brighton Away for 150 tickets - Wonder how many suddenly cannot make that date but would be available if it was Man Utd away

Yep I aint rushing back to, for example, West Ham (if they stay up)

My time and money has been dominated this year by aways etc. And I don't fancy doing it next year

Same with us, on a normal season I might do 10-12 away games, this season have done a lot more due to lots of grounds my 16 year old has never been too, certainly won't be doing this many next season, it's a very costly hobby paying for hotels, trains, tickets, food/drink for two people!