Dan Neil

[Daniels]

If I were him I would avoid West Ham and take a chance at Koln. Would be a great opportunity for him. A few years over there then maybe back to England later if the right club comes along.

 

[chriswallace85]

We were carrying too many kids, kids who had no real experience, know how or leadership at that point and were primed to simply play football whether it was on or not. The rot of being too open, trying to play out too much from the back under Johnson had set in.

Patterson improved it to a degree but having Hoffman, Doyle, Cirkin, Neil at the core of the side before Batth and Wright came back in was too much. Mostly they needed to come out and be refreshed and thankfully Neil (snake) spotted it.

From a stat point of view we were still high in the league - it was arrested and Neil played plenty of minutes either sub or starting and scored during that resurgence. By that point we absolutely weren't floundering.

No, we were on the road to recovery and promotion, with Neil largely out of the side.

Bizarrely dobbo has turned out into a handy championship midfielder

He was probably never as bad as people made out. But he had the gait and posture of an orc, zero flair, was unfashionable, and played for us at our lowest ebb.

 

[HeroHurley]

Bizarrely dobbo has turned out into a handy championship midfielder

I always expected him to. He was a young lad doing an unfashionable job for us during the worst period in our history. He was never a bad player and I think he'd have played his part with us right the way through the Championship had he stayed.

 

[chriswallace85]

Arguing over Dobson and Neil? How far we’ve come eh

Hamer to Leeds?

Christ, I wouldn't be happy with that as a Leeds fan.

 

[Whitburnmakem]

People on here watch with their eyes. As much as people's opinions differ and some have preconceived opinions I'd look the majority than Opta.

Optas are too stats based. At the weekend Mundle got a 7 or something and I thought he was ficking crap. But he had 4 shots, after trying the same type of cutting in around 98 times. statistically 3 were on target so he gets a 7.

Would it be better to have 0 shots and 0 on target then like the vast majority of the team ?

 

[Perryqhill]

Do I seem to like them? Im sure I can reinforce my opinion with data if required, but at this point, would my opinion that Jobe was head and shoulders above Dan last season really require it?

But what data would back that up?

You can hand pick some maybe but even the areas where Neil is meant to be weak if you listen on here like being dispossessed- Neil got dispossessed 45 times to Jobe's 57. Neil made 252 recoveries to Jobe's 221. 40 successful dribbles for Neil to Jobe's 36. Successful passes Neil 1612 Jobe 1358. Neil interceptions 46 to Jobes 31. 2531 touches Neil 2240 Jobe. Dribbled past opposition- Neil 40, Jobe 17.

Jobe has two more goals, same assists. a slightly higher pass percentage accuracy, better longer pass accuracy by a reasonable amount and marginally higher percentage on duels won. Jobe won the ball in the final third 17 times to Neil's 15.

Pick what you want - it's very marginal.

Would it be better to have 0 shots and 0 on target then like the vast majority of the team ?

Well no, but then really you're not comparing him to the team in its entirety are you - unless you're foolish. He plays in a position where he's there to attack or provide attacking quality.

If you're assigning a score to it then attacking moments like a shot make it statistically higher.

When you look at his actual data from the game he had four shots, three on target (three were never going in - arguably 4 from that angle).

I'm attack:
No successful crosses - one attempt.
No successful dribbles - 4 attempts.
Dispossessed- 5 times
8 touches in opposition box.

So he can shoot from anywhere, from angles that you aren't likely to score from often and despite not putting a single cross in or a successful dribble he gets a 7 rating?

 

[LineTrash]

It's the Dan Club I take issue with.

The Dan Club!

 

[Daffy]

Mods do we really need 2 threads on Dan Neil ?

 

[Perryqhill]

No, we were on the road to recovery and promotion, with Neil largely out of the side.

You've picked the Wimbledon game as the last full one he played. Like this is a ridiculous argument given he was 19/20 in his first full season, like many of the young lads had been overplayed, but let's run with it.

From playing a full game against Wimbledon in Feb he played:

56 mins and was subbed
Came on as a 56th min sub
75th min sub
82nd min sub
59th min sub
Played 74 as a starter
86th min sub
80 min sub
66th min sub
82nd min sub

He played 39 times in the league, 3 goals, 7 assists. He started 31 games in his first full season. He played 2724 mins.

We were never below was it 4th during the season when he was playing regularly?

I'm not sure what your argument is or where it's trying to go. As if we were poor with him in or something despite us topping the table earlier in the season. like the drop off in form was entirely his fault and not to be expected with how many kids we had in and how much we were flogging them

He was probably never as bad as people made out. But he had the gait and posture of an orc, zero flair, was unfashionable, and played for us at our lowest ebb.

He started ok but dropped off a cliff. A limited young lad in a dogshit playing side when all around him seemed to be falling apart with so much negativity. He was very very slow as well.

Probably suits the way Plays bypassing midfield as well.

 

[Onienbigmac123]

I say after 2 years and 50 posts on here I can't see a single thing you've said that's not critical of our club or our players.

Oh?
And being unable to spell "Sunderland" in your bio doesn't help the pervasive odour of Bisto surrounding you either.

Think you might just be smelling the odour from your armpits. Also a bit strange naming your account zak’s dad. I sense gravy

 

[Zak's Dad]

Think you might just be smelling the odour from your armpits. Also a bit strange naming your account zak’s dad. I sense gravy

Oh dear. So you ignore the insinuation that you post nothing but negative stuff about the team and club and go straight I with the deflection of "you must be a mag"?

Been on here since the late 90s.
I went to school with people on the board in the 70s and 80s here in Sunderland.

That's "Sunderland" mate.
You corrected your bio yet?

Or better still posted something vaguely positive about the club or team?

 

[Coeus]

But what data would back that up?

You can hand pick some maybe but even the areas where Neil is meant to be weak if you listen on here like being dispossessed- Neil got dispossessed 45 times to Jobe's 57. Neil made 252 recoveries to Jobe's 221. 40 successful dribbles for Neil to Jobe's 36. Successful passes Neil 1612 Jobe 1358. Neil interceptions 46 to Jobes 31. 2531 touches Neil 2240 Jobe. Dribbled past opposition- Neil 40, Jobe 17.

Jobe has two more goals, same assists. a slightly higher pass percentage accuracy, better longer pass accuracy by a reasonable amount and marginally higher percentage on duels won. Jobe won the ball in the final third 17 times to Neil's 15.

Pick what you want - it's very marginal.


Well no, but then really you're not comparing him to the team in its entirety are you - unless you're foolish. He plays in a position where he's there to attack or provide attacking quality.

If you're assigning a score to it then attacking moments like a shot make it statistically higher.

When you look at his actual data from the game he had four shots, three on target (three were never going in - arguably 4 from that angle).

I'm attack:
No successful crosses - one attempt.
No successful dribbles - 4 attempts.
Dispossessed- 5 times
8 touches in opposition box.

So he can shoot from anywhere, from angles that you aren't likely to score from often and despite not putting a single cross in or a successful dribble he gets a 7 rating?

There is a plethora of statistics, but viewing these below shows each of their percentiles.

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I like the whoscored rating. I find that by and large it's quite close to my opinion, there are outliers, of course, but it's designed to provide a rating to a large amount of statistics per game.

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And if stats aren't your thing, you can look at which teams wanted to purchase them and for how much.

 

[Perryqhill]

There is a plethora of statistics, but viewing these below shows each of their percentiles.

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I like the whoscored rating. I find that by and large it's quite close to my opinion, there are outliers, of course, but it's designed to provide a rating to a large amount of statistics per game.

You must be logged on to see external links

I've just posted a load of side by side specific ones of each player in many of the key areas that should be looked at in terms of overall numbers and percentages - passing, lomg passing, dribbling, tackles, recoveries etc.

Even if you get deep into fbref ones and start looking at passes into the final third Neil is higher in many or Jobe tajes the odd one. Start looking at take ons and successful take ons Neil is higher. Aerially Jobe is much higher.

It's so marginal - aerially apart that I can't see how you are interpreting it towards Jobe.

And if stats aren't your thing, you can look at which teams wanted to purchase them and for how much.

Maybe Dortmund should have looked at Jobe's stats instead of his surname. Based on those stats and performances they'd have never signed him - maybe it's why it's working out for him as it is

 

[zidanny]

Dan Neil just needs to go asap and start playing regular again. He’s a lovely footballer but prone to too many brain farts to command a place in the premier league right now. Not to say he won’t erase that from his game and kick on but he will never kick on if he continues to get zero minutes.
Thanks for the the memories but we’ve stepped up to a whole other level, now go and get some games and enjoy your football again.

 

[Coeus]

I've just posted a load of side by side specific ones of each player in many of the key areas that should be looked at in terms of overall numbers and percentages - passing, lomg passing, dribbling, tackles, recoveries etc.

Even if you get deep into fbref ones and start looking at passes into the final third Neil is higher in many or Jobe tajes the odd one. Start looking at take ons and successful take ons Neil is higher. Aerially Jobe is much higher.

It's so marginal - aerially apart that I can't see how you are interpreting it towards Jobe.




Maybe Dortmund should have looked at Jobe's stats instead of his surname. Based on those stats and performances they'd have never signed him - maybe it's why it's working out for him as it is

Vs midfielders of the championship

Attacking Percentiles:

Dan Neil: 39, 8, 17, 48, 33, 22, 36 = 203
Jobe: 65, 51, 70, 53, 42, 41, 60 = 382

Passing Percentiles:

Dan Neil: 63, 74, 86, 51, 76, 12, 32 = 394
Jobe: 49, 87, 74, 63, 75, 64, 63 = 475

Defending Percentiles:

Dan Neil: 46, 75, 35, 61, 41 = 258
Jobe: 43, 39, 77, 83, 87 = 329

It's not close.

 

[Jdog]

Oh dear. So you ignore the insinuation that you post nothing but negative stuff about the team and club and go straight I with the deflection of "you must be a mag"?

Been on here since the late 90s.
I went to school with people on the board in the 70s and 80s here in Sunderland.

That's "Sunderland" mate.
You corrected your bio yet?

Or better still posted something vaguely positive about the club or team?

Can you only post something on this football forum if it’s positive?

 

[Onienbigmac123]

Oh dear. So you ignore the insinuation that you post nothing but negative stuff about the team and club and go straight I with the deflection of "you must be a mag"?

Been on here since the late 90s.
I went to school with people on the board in the 70s and 80s here in Sunderland.

That's "Sunderland" mate.
You corrected your bio yet?

Or better still posted something vaguely positive about the club or team?

Wow i’m impressed you’ve been on here since the late 90s when the forum was created in 2004…

If you read through my threads instead of making stuff up, I very rarely have a negative view on something.

Also, going to school with people on the board doesn’t prove anything. If I went to school with the king does that make me royalty??

It was also you that insinuated I was a mag in your first post so I think you’d be better off posting in threads about something constructive.

Oh dear. So you ignore the insinuation that you post nothing but negative stuff about the team and club and go straight I with the deflection of "you must be a mag"?

Been on here since the late 90s.
I went to school with people on the board in the 70s and 80s here in Sunderland.

That's "Sunderland" mate.
You corrected your bio yet?

Or better still posted something vaguely positive about the club or team?

Also your profile clearly says 2006 when you joined. Hopefully your knowledge on players is slightly better than your knowledge of yourself

 

[WearthePeople]

Good move for him if he decides to go. RLB obviously doesn't fancy him at this level and he can go and play in a good league with a big passionate fanbase

 

[Zak's Dad]

Can you only post something on this football forum if it’s positive?

You can post whatever you want mate.

I was merely pointing out that in 2 years of posting every single post was critical.

 

[Perryqhill]

Vs midfielders of the championship

Attacking Percentiles:

Dan Neil: 39, 8, 17, 48, 33, 22, 36 = 203
Jobe: 65, 51, 70, 53, 42, 41, 60 = 382

Passing Percentiles:

Dan Neil: 63, 74, 86, 51, 76, 12, 32 = 394
Jobe: 49, 87, 74, 63, 75, 64, 63 = 475

Defending Percentiles:

Dan Neil: 46, 75, 35, 61, 41 = 258
Jobe: 43, 39, 77, 83, 87 = 329

It's not close.

What on earth is that?

In your percentiles they might not even be judged against each other as part of the same pool and given you've barely any in each category- it's not exactly a decent breakdown.


Percentiles are calculated by comparing a player's statistics to the players in the comparison pool. For example, when calculating the Goals percentile for Kylian Mbappé, we find the percentage of Forwards whose goals are lower than his, and the percentage of Forwards whose goals are lower than or equal to his. The average of these two percentages is his Goals percentile.


I'm looking at a bigger picture over actual stats, alongside percentages than you as an actual side by side comparison. The actual stats make it much closer and in so many instances favour Neil - I've already posted many of them.