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Dan Neil

Perryqhill said:
Here we go. The problem with these is they're too stat based and some of that is great and builds a picture, but that's all it is.

I've mentioned this elsewhere but we could all see Masuaku having a poor game against United. Some of that was due to Adingra's lack of work ethic and covering.
But I recall on one of our social media platforms a very well regarded individual suggesting that in terms of stats Masuaku had a similar, but slightly better game than Hume on the other side. Guess which one has never played again for us though and never likely will?

And if that's George Dobson I f*cking despair, as if he's anywhere close to Neil.

He was absolutely hopeless - tried hard, kept fitness levels up, zero quality.
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As far as compelling arguments go, im inclined to side with algorithms and data over anecdotes and trust me bro.
 

rubberface said:
Mental the stick Mundle got after Everton like. Yes, things didnt come off...but, he is the only one player we have who is direct and isnt afraid to get at his full back. He does need to vary it a bit by going to the byline sometimes rsther than cutting in but at least he's wxciting to watch imo. He stsrted to look a bit like the Mundle we know last week. The lad has just come back from getting his whole hamstring rebuilt.
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Nail on head. Needs his confidence back with his hamstring, and his own ability after the injury’s he’s suffered. I do believe when it all clicks he will be the highest scoring winger at the club.
 
The Beautiful Game said:
Opta would tell you Sadiki is a middling centre midfielder. I’m assuming your eyes say otherwise
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Would it? I've not checked.
Perryqhill said:
He showed zero quality and shoots from anywhere. He could barely get hold of the ball, lost it so many times trying to cut inside and shoot. Even went straight out of play when he miscontrolled on the touchline.

I mean yes - you are going to find several posts recently of me saying he has no quality and everything is overhit etc, because that's what we've repeatedly seen. Even so - it's still nowhere near you and the level of Neil yet.

I mean even if you go halfway down that page of search results it's not even really Negative about Mundle 😀
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I think you'd be hard pressed finding many posts of me criticising Dan Neil outright.

It's the Dan Club I take issue with.:lol:
 
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Coeus said:
As far as compelling arguments go, im inclined to side with algorithms and data over anecdotes and trust me bro.
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Anecdotes like Dobson being bombed out of Sunderland because he couldn't pass to a team mate and Dan Neil coming in having already looked far better in the Football League Trophy?

Anecdotes like us improving as a team and getting promotion in Neil's first full season (incidently the season after Dobson left) whilst Dobson had to go to backwaters like Wimbledon and Charlton in league one before going to Wrexham, playing another 200 games at L1 level before getting promoted to the championship at 28? when Neil had captained a side at that level for a couple of seasons and just been promoted to the PL.

Anecdotes like them?

You seem to like those sort of anecdotes when it comes to your 30m CL midfielder, but not when it's a quite clear whitewash for Dan Neil against George Dobson?

Are Rangers and German clubs in for Dobson btw?
 
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Rocky77 said:
I can think of one when you said he was hiding, you were the only one to see him doing it iirc.
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Oooo that was a very specific snapshot. Good memory. It was ower that penalty wasn't it. Flailing his arms about towards the bench as if to say they're not listening to me.

A fleeting moment with the ball out of play where I got the impression from my seat that our captain didn't have a handle on the situation.
 
chriswallace85 said:
Oooo that was a very specific snapshot. Good memory. It was ower that penalty wasn't it. Flailing his arms about towards the bench as if to say they're not listening to me.

A fleeting moment with the ball out of play where I got the impression from my seat that our captain didn't have a handle on the situation.
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Which match was this? @Rocky77
 
Perryqhill said:
Anecdotes like Dobson being bombed out of Sunderland because he couldn't pass to a team mate and Dan Neil coming in having already looked far better in the Football League Trophy?

Anecdotes like us improving as a team and getting promotion in Neil's first full season (incidently the season after Dobson left) whilst Dobson had to go to backwaters like Wimbledon and Charlton in league one before going to Wrexham, playing another 200 games at L1 level before getting promoted to the championship at 28? when Neil had captained a side at that level for a couple of seasons and just been promoted to the PL.

Anecdotes like them?

You seem to like those sort of anecdotes when it comes to your 30m CL midfielder, but not when it's a quite clear whitewash for Dan Neil against George Dobson?

Are Rangers and German clubs in for Dobson btw?
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Interesting that in Dobson's final season with us he had a higher pass completion rate than Dan Neil did the following.

In Dan Neil's first "full" season we were floundering the league with him a stalwart in the side. Once he was taken out of the side, we marched on to promotion with him barely kicking a ball. How's that for an anecdote?
woodlebert said:
Which match was this? @Rocky77
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When they were all fighting ower a penalty last season. I think O'Nien took it. And missed. :lol:
Weremuthe said:
Might be a SEB (BBC SAFC webpage)

"
Former Sunderland midfielder Lee Cattermole says he "will be gutted" if Dan Neil leaves the club.

Neil came through the Black Cats academy and played a big part in Sunderland's rise to the Premier League, featuring for the side in League One and the Championship.

However, the 24-year-old midfielder's contract is up in the summer and he has made only three substitute appearances for Regis le Bris' side this season.

Cattermole said: "If he does leave, I will be gutted that he hasn't had the chance to show himself because people write people off before they have even had a chance to kick the ball.

"I think he would have been expecting to have a start, especially with Afcon and us losing players.

"The speculation is definitely there. I believe he wants to be and should be playing football at his age."
"
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"Us". 🥰
 
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chriswallace85 said:
Oooo that was a very specific snapshot. Good memory. It was ower that penalty wasn't it. Flailing his arms about towards the bench as if to say they're not listening to me.

A fleeting moment with the ball out of play where I got the impression from my seat that our captain didn't have a handle on the situation.
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I remembered it as it was way off the mark
woodlebert said:
Which match was this? @Rocky77
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Can't remember tbh mate
 
chriswallace85 said:
Interesting that in Dobson's final season with us he had a higher pass completion rate than Dan Neil did the following.

In Dan Neil's first "full" season we were floundering the league with him a stalwart in the side. Once he was taken out of the side, we marched on to promotion with him barely kicking a ball. How's that for an anecdote?

When they were all fighting ower a penalty last season. I think O'Nien took it. And missed. :lol:
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Dobson played 5 games in his final season here.

According to Footmob. Dobson was 78% of completed passes in those five games, Neil was at 82% for 39 games. Neil had 7 assists. Overall Dobson played 29 matches that season with a 79.1% pass completion rate and 1 assist.

Our season fell apart from various reasons - but floundering, what was our lowest league positon during that period 😀
 
Beyond the contract situation, I think Dan Neil has suffered from the way our midfield has changed so rapidly from last season. Then we had Neil, Bellingham and Rigg playing almost every game. A tactics video by Taff showed how Neil played a vital role as single pivot, but switching sides to cover when a fullback went forward, which gave us the stability to build pressure without being vulnerable to counter-attack . We don't play like that now, because we have recruited a completely different style of midfield.

I don't think it is so much that Dan's face doesn't fit any more. His style doesn't fit.

He will do very well elsewhere, as a skillful and creative midfielder in the Championship, and probably in the Prem too, given the right set-up. He will be remembered here as a great Academy product who took us through an important stage of our revival.
 
Perryqhill said:
Anecdotes like Dobson being bombed out of Sunderland because he couldn't pass to a team mate and Dan Neil coming in having already looked far better in the Football League Trophy?

Anecdotes like us improving as a team and getting promotion in Neil's first full season (incidently the season after Dobson left) whilst Dobson had to go to backwaters like Wimbledon and Charlton in league one before going to Wrexham, playing another 200 games at L1 level before getting promoted to the championship at 28? when Neil had captained a side at that level for a couple of seasons and just been promoted to the PL.

Anecdotes like them?

You seem to like those sort of anecdotes when it comes to your 30m CL midfielder, but not when it's a quite clear whitewash for Dan Neil against George Dobson?

Are Rangers and German clubs in for Dobson btw?
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Yep - also one of the reasons that, though data is a great tool, de contextualised it can give you a bum steer. Garbage In, Garbage Out - see open ended AI systems for further evidence.
 
rubberface said:
Mental the stick Mundle got after Everton like. Yes, things didnt come off...but, he is the only one player we have who is direct and isnt afraid to get at his full back. He does need to vary it a bit by going to the byline sometimes rsther than cutting in but at least he's wxciting to watch imo. He stsrted to look a bit like the Mundle we know last week. The lad has just come back from getting his whole hamstring rebuilt.
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My criticisms of him aren't just built on one game tbh. He had a very good initial impact, but it tailed off even before injury at Championship level.

He really really needs regular games. But I've been hugely disappointed with the lack of quality he's shown at this level so far on the ball and his decision making. Everything is generally overhit, mishit, not controlled etc.

As for getting at his full back- against Everton Patterson had only started two games this season and even so Mundle didnt get at him or go past him, he matched Mundle for pace and generally snuffed him out too easily.

His fitness held up, he fought hard, but he continually tried the same move - he needs to improve massively or he'll get bombed.
 
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Perryqhill said:
Dobson played 5 games in his final season here.

According to Footmob. Dobson was 78% of completed passes in those five games, Neil was at 82% for 39 games. Neil had 7 assists. Overall Dobson played 29 matches that season with a 79.1% pass completion rate and 1 assist.

Our season fell apart from various reasons - but floundering, what was our lowest league positon during that period 😀
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:lol: Good spot. Stats eh...

82.2% completion in 29 apps the season prior.



And we absolutely were floundering. Following the 1-1 home draw against Wimbledon, the last game to feature a full 90 minutes of Dan Neil that season, we were 4th. Four point behind Wigan in 2nd, who had four games in hand. Automatics had gone. So yes, we very much were floundering.

He played 56 minutes of the next game - the home defeat to MK Dons - before being hauled off. We lost that game pissing about in midfield. We dropped to 7th. He barely kicked another ball after that.
 
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chriswallace85 said:
And we absolutely were floundering. Following the 1-1 home draw against Wimbledon, the last game to feature a full 90 minutes of Dan Neil that season, we were 4th. Four point behind Wigan in 2nd, who had four games in hand. Automatics had gone. So yes, we very much were floufloundering.
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We were carrying too many kids, kids who had no real experience, know how or leadership at that point and were primed to simply play football whether it was on or not. The rot of being too open, trying to play out too much from the back under Johnson had set in.

Patterson improved it to a degree but having Hoffman, Doyle, Cirkin, Neil at the core of the side before Batth and Wright came back in was too much. Mostly they needed to come out and be refreshed and thankfully Neil (snake) spotted it.

From a stat point of view we were still high in the league - it was arrested and Neil played plenty of minutes either sub or starting and scored during that resurgence. By that point we absolutely weren't floundering.
 
Perryqhill said:
Anecdotes like Dobson being bombed out of Sunderland because he couldn't pass to a team mate and Dan Neil coming in having already looked far better in the Football League Trophy?

Anecdotes like us improving as a team and getting promotion in Neil's first full season (incidently the season after Dobson left) whilst Dobson had to go to backwaters like Wimbledon and Charlton in league one before going to Wrexham, playing another 200 games at L1 level before getting promoted to the championship at 28? when Neil had captained a side at that level for a couple of seasons and just been promoted to the PL.

Anecdotes like them?

You seem to like those sort of anecdotes when it comes to your 30m CL midfielder, but not when it's a quite clear whitewash for Dan Neil against George Dobson?

Are Rangers and German clubs in for Dobson btw?
Click to expand...

Do I seem to like them? Im sure I can reinforce my opinion with data if required, but at this point, would my opinion that Jobe was head and shoulders above Dan last season really require it?
 
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