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SACK MOTT!

MustardAndOnions said:
Probably but regardless of the pre arranged plans it’s still the captains job to react on the field

The captain is the most important person in a cricket team and has the most power
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The coach sets the vision and strategy and prepares the players for the match, including the captain.

What has Mott achieved, in men's cricket, before he took over England?

Jos was Vice-Captain when England were blowing teams off the park five years ago.

We were out of this world cup before we played a match. We're second best to most of the big teams.
 

smoker said:
The coach sets the vision and strategy and prepares the players for the match, including the captain.

What has Mott achieved, in men's cricket, before he took over England?

Jos was Vice-Captain when England were blowing teams off the park five years ago.

We were out of this world cup before we played a match. We're second best to most of the big teams.
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Did you watch the match last night?

He’s not a good enough captain. Mott will be leaving but you could have the best coach in the world on there, if a captain decides not to bowl spin and a spinning low pitch, you have no chance

I’m sorry but the captain is in charge, not the coach. You think Ben Stokes could have captained like that last night? Or Morgan?

Absolutely no chance.
 
MustardAndOnions said:
I like the way they play personally it’s great to watch and the captaincy is brilliant

The biggest myth in my view anyway is that we have the players in England to play a more traditional way and win games. I don’t think we do

I think Australia would have hammered us if we’d played any other way

Anyway it’s a shame stokes n McCullum are not in charge of the white ball stuff
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Complete and wholeheartedly agree McCullum and Stokes have done what it is extremely hard to do at top international sport.

Get players under pressure play with confidence and flourish rather than worry about mistakes.

And create a group where players feel backed and trusted.

Simply love the philosophy behind it.

That said there is always room for improvement and it has to be accepted they have gone too hard at times and think they aware of that themselves
 
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Voice of fair play said:
Complete and wholeheartedly agree McCullum and Stokes have done what it is extremely hard to do at top international sport.

Get players under pressure play with confidence and flourish rather than worry about mistakes.

And create a group where players feel backed and trusted.

Simply love the philosophy behind it.

That said there is always room for improvement and it has to be accepted they have gone too hard at times and think they aware of that themselves
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Absolutely, and also the 2nd point is it suits the talent we have, we don't have a Cook, or Trott or whatever, what we have is lots of very talented stroke makers.

I simply disagree that like for example Duckett could grind out a 100 against Hazlewood and Cummins over 2 days or whatever, he couldnt, but he could potentially do it by attacking them.

The only 2 I wish would just bat with more natural tempo are Root and possibly Stokes, who have the game to do that.
 
MustardAndOnions said:
Absolutely, and also the 2nd point is it suits the talent we have, we don't have a Cook, or Trott or whatever, what we have is lots of very talented stroke makers.

I simply disagree that like for example Duckett could grind out a 100 against Hazlewood and Cummins over 2 days or whatever, he couldnt, but he could potentially do it by attacking them.

The only 2 I wish would just bat with more natural tempo are Root and possibly Stokes, who have the game to do that.
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Yeah tbf to the other side of the argument Stokes especially early in his regime went too hard at times ( although that just once again proved what a selfless cricketer he is) and agree Root should just play normally.

However the bigger picture far outweighs that imo.

But yeah completely agree with your Duckett point, we seen what happened with the likes of Sibley and Hameed.

The players we have are undoubtedly more suited to be positive.

The philosophy of backing and trusting players rather than making them shit scared is something I strongly believe in always have.

Think it’s the opposite with our football team who seem scared to take any risks whatsoever despite been brilliant forward players because imo there is too much pressure on them and they frightened to make a mistake.

A philosophy what gets players to flourish is the better philosophy imo
 
Voice of fair play said:
Yeah tbf to the other side of the argument Stokes especially early in his regime went too hard at times ( although that just once again proved what a selfless cricketer he is) and agree Root should just play normally.

However the bigger picture far outweighs that imo.

But yeah completely agree with your Duckett point, we seen what happened with the likes of Sibley and Hameed.

The players we have are undoubtedly more suited to be positive.

The philosophy of backing and trusting players rather than making them shit scared is something I strongly believe in always have.

Think it’s the opposite with our football team who seem scared to take any risks whatsoever despite been brilliant forward players because imo there is too much pressure on them and they frightened to make a mistake.

A philosophy what gets players to flourish is the better philosophy imo
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Defs yeah, Southgate had released that pressure earlier in his job, which is why the results improved

But you can see it feels back to how it was under like the Gerrard, Lampard era, they look afraid to make mistakes and can feel the pressure.

Also, as I have got a bit older, entertainment is important I think, especially in test cricket, I was gutted we didnt win the ashes, but I do like the way they play.

However, I do have absolutely no problem with like 1 old school defensive player in or whatver, but they have to be very very good, and at the minute, we have nobody good enough to do that. Sibley probably is your best bet, but he isn't good enough to consistently score runs is he.
 
Mott was always going to be a horrible appointment had done nothing in the men’s game.

His success was coaching the Aussie women’s team and they have been so far ahead of teams for years the tea lady could of coached them to success.

It was his failure to front up to the media during the disaster that was the 50 over World Cup that summed him up for me just no backbone whatsoever!
 
Durham-Mackem41 said:
Mott was always going to be a horrible appointment had done nothing in the men’s game.

His success was coaching the Aussie women’s team and they have been so far ahead of teams for years the tea lady could of coached them to success.

It was his failure to front up to the media during the disaster that was the 50 over World Cup that summed him up for me just no backbone whatsoever!
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I enjoy watching the women's game and delighted to see it growing but, as with football, I wouldnt be surprised to see a decent U15s boys team beat the top women's team. The difference in strength, speed and power are just worlds apart between the men and women. In that respect, I wonder how anyone thought his experience with Australia somehow made him qualified for this job.


The bloke is talking rubbish as well. I've not seen any progress. The preparation, tactics, selection and decision making are as poor as ever.


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Parkside said:
Buttler reporting that he's keen to stay on as England White ball captain(Cricketer newsletter).
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ffs
Durham-Mackem41 said:
Mott was always going to be a horrible appointment had done nothing in the men’s game.

His success was coaching the Aussie women’s team and they have been so far ahead of teams for years the tea lady could of coached them to success.

It was his failure to front up to the media during the disaster that was the 50 over World Cup that summed him up for me just no backbone whatsoever!
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nobody is doubtin that, needs to go

Buttler even more to blame for me tho
 
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Ali Martin makes some very good points below. All of our preparation, selection, planned strategy and on field decisions seem at odds with each other.

"As for England? They left out Chris Woakes on the basis of Reece Topley being a lock for the new ball alongside Jofra Archer, only to then leave Topley out of the XI for the first two matches. Chris Jordan was in and out throughout, Mark Wood likewise. Will Jacks started at No 3, was thrown the new ball for the first time in international T20 cricket – one over for 22
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after being asked to defend a short boundary with a gale blowing directly into it – and then dumped for Sam Curran after only three games.

Curran was, initially, a one-off for the shortened thrash against Namibia but Buttler, fully trusting only of Archer and Adil Rashid, it seemed, was taken by the safety net of a fourth seamer. Plus, it would mean Jonny Bairstow and Harry Brook getting into the contest a spot sooner. But even after this mid-tournament switch in structure, in a part of the world they know better than most, Moeen Ali kept striding out before one or both of them because, it turns out, top order left-handers are quite handy in T20, not least in a region of crosswinds. Not that this tactic ever actually came off.

England did have a top order left-hander on the bench in Ben Duckett, a guy who has a strike-rate of 144 in T20 these past three years and sweeps both sides of the wicket, orthodox and reverse. Not that he ever got close. Neither did Tom Hartley, a left-arm spinner brought on tour in the event of coming across a low, skiddy pitch such as the one in Guyana. Axar Patel, with whom Hartley has been compared by way of attributes, tucked in. Moeen, a spinner with 366 international wickets, did not bowl at all."

I'd forgotten Duckett and Hartley were in the squad. Too much gone wrong the last 9 months for coach and captain to stay. Buttler should stay in the team though.

Edit - apologies for crappy copy and paste.
 
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Rufus T Firefly said:
Ali Martin makes some very good points below. All of our preparation, selection, planned strategy and on field decisions seem at odds with each other.

"As for England? They left out Chris Woakes on the basis of Reece Topley being a lock for the new ball alongside Jofra Archer, only to then leave Topley out of the XI for the first two matches. Chris Jordan was in and out throughout, Mark Wood likewise. Will Jacks started at No 3, was thrown the new ball for the first time in international T20 cricket – one over for 22
You must be logged on to see external links
after being asked to defend a short boundary with a gale blowing directly into it – and then dumped for Sam Curran after only three games.

Curran was, initially, a one-off for the shortened thrash against Namibia but Buttler, fully trusting only of Archer and Adil Rashid, it seemed, was taken by the safety net of a fourth seamer. Plus, it would mean Jonny Bairstow and Harry Brook getting into the contest a spot sooner. But even after this mid-tournament switch in structure, in a part of the world they know better than most, Moeen Ali kept striding out before one or both of them because, it turns out, top order left-handers are quite handy in T20, not least in a region of crosswinds. Not that this tactic ever actually came off.

England did have a top order left-hander on the bench in Ben Duckett, a guy who has a strike-rate of 144 in T20 these past three years and sweeps both sides of the wicket, orthodox and reverse. Not that he ever got close. Neither did Tom Hartley, a left-arm spinner brought on tour in the event of coming across a low, skiddy pitch such as the one in Guyana. Axar Patel, with whom Hartley has been compared by way of attributes, tucked in. Moeen, a spinner with 366 international wickets, did not bowl at all."

I'd forgotten Duckett and Hartley were in the squad. Too much gone wrong the last 9 months for coach and captain to stay. Buttler should stay in the team though.

Edit - apologies for crappy copy and paste.
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Yep, too much talk of like style of player and attitude in T20 by this England group.

T20 obviously is a short format and you have to adapt to conditions and the pitch infront of you very quickly, or the game has gone.

So many mistakes in the article you posted, but I can't move past the India game.

They were most likely always going to beat us in those conditions, but we knew what the pitch would be, why were Duckett and Hartley even there if they werent gonna be in this XI for this game, its why they were selected.

But not bowling Ali on that pitch, I just cant even get my head around it. Fundamentally you are a shite captain if you are making that call and he needs to go immediatley.
 
Durham-Mackem41 said:
Mott was always going to be a horrible appointment had done nothing in the men’s game.

His success was coaching the Aussie women’s team and they have been so far ahead of teams for years the tea lady could of coached them to success.

It was his failure to front up to the media during the disaster that was the 50 over World Cup that summed him up for me just no backbone whatsoever!
Click to expand...
It comes back to a point I've made multiple times around womens football too. Womens and Mens sport are different sports - womens cricket is not the same sport as mens cricket, and likewise for football. They are played in totally different ways, with different tactics employed, different personnel with different capabilities. And things that work in one version of the game won't work in the other, and vice versa. An 80mph dobber would run through womens teams, yet won't make an impression in the mens game, for example.

Therefore, successful coaches in the womens game aren't likely to transfer the same things to the mens game, so unless they have exceptional adaptation and tactical abilities then they're never going to succeed. And the same applies moving the other way - you can see how badly Neville failed as the England womens manager for instance.

People need to accept they are different sports, to all intents and purpose, and shouldn't be treat as directly transferrable. It's like me claiming that because my U8s team won the league I should get the Real Madrid job as it's still the same sport played with a ball right?
 
Mackem Attack said:
It comes back to a point I've made multiple times around womens football too. Womens and Mens sport are different sports - womens cricket is not the same sport as mens cricket, and likewise for football. They are played in totally different ways, with different tactics employed, different personnel with different capabilities. And things that work in one version of the game won't work in the other, and vice versa. An 80mph dobber would run through womens teams, yet won't make an impression in the mens game, for example.

Therefore, successful coaches in the womens game aren't likely to transfer the same things to the mens game, so unless they have exceptional adaptation and tactical abilities then they're never going to succeed. And the same applies moving the other way - you can see how badly Neville failed as the England womens manager for instance.

People need to accept they are different sports, to all intents and purpose, and shouldn't be treat as directly transferrable. It's like me claiming that because my U8s team won the league I should get the Real Madrid job as it's still the same sport played with a ball right?
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Also the fact that Mott was coach of the Australian team who are light years ahead of other competing nations in terms of infrastructure and quality of players.

It's like being Celtic or Rangers manager, thrashing the likes of Dunfermline, Hibs and St Mirren week in week out then getting a gig in the Premier League.
 
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