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India v England 3rd Test Rajkot

Mackem Attack said:
Again, so you’re saying we should accept whatever shite is served up now because it was worse under root? That’s not how it works - we should be looking to improve now on what hand we have, not accepting it
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What I am trying to get across to you mate.

Is two years ago the complete culture and mindset of this team need to change massively from top to bottom.

We were happy having openers batting time scratching a 30 as long as they occupied the crease that was seen as good!!

We turned down chasing 270 odd in 77 overs against New Zealand only 3 years or so ago and batted for a draw in that final innings from ball one!!

The reason the fortunes of this team have been turned around is a complete turnaround in culture and leadership!!

And to drop batsman like Root which you suggesting is against all them leadership principles and go against everything this team stands for and possibly destroy all the good work this regime has produced.

Days like this are to accept mistakes were made and admit them mistakes then take stock

They not for knee jerk reactions and dropping your best player

And look at the bigger picture
 
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Voice of fair play said:
With respect mate, I see it differently when my team wins especially when they played very well can talk about and want to talk about it till the cows come home as gives me great joy
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Yea I get that, we all enjoy winning, of course we do. But the question initially was why do people respond more in defeat on here than in victory. You posting “didn’t pope do well for his 180 in the first test”, whilst most if not all would agree with you, won’t generate the same level of discussion as someone suggesting a change for the next game when we lose - there’s been about 100 posts on the back of me questioning whether root needs dropping for a game as a kick up the arse for instance.
Voice of fair play said:
What I am trying to get across to you mate.

Is two years ago the complete culture and mindset of this team need to change massively from top to bottom.

We were happy having openers batting time scratching a 30 as long as they occupied the crease that was seen as good!!

We turned down chasing 270 odd in 77 overs against New Zealand only 3 years or so ago and batted for a draw in that final innings from ball one!!

The reason the fortunes of this team have been turned around is a complete turnaround in culture and leadership!!

And to drop batsman like Root which you suggesting is against all them leadership principles and go against everything this team stands for and possibly destroy all the good work this regime has produced.

Days like this are to accept mistakes were made take stock and not for knee jerk reactions.

And look at the bigger picture
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Case in point 🤣

Respectfully, lords was the time to accept it and take stock. This is the second occasion when nothing has been learned and is the time to ask serious questions
 
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Mackem Attack said:
Yea I get that, we all enjoy winning, of course we do. But the question initially was why do people respond more in defeat on here than in victory. You posting “didn’t pope do well for his 180 in the first test”, whilst most if not all would agree with you, won’t generate the same level of discussion as someone suggesting a change for the next game when we lose - there’s been about 100 posts on the back of me questioning whether root needs dropping for a game as a kick up the arse for instance.

Case in point 🤣

Respectfully, lords was the time to accept it and take stock. This is the second occasion when nothing has been learned and is the time to ask serious questions
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If you really think dropping Root is the answer go against everything this team stands for and after what they have achieved in the last couple of years then no point continuing debating with you, as imo you massively missing the bigger picture of what makes this team successful.

The whole reason this team has been a brilliant successful team is backing players and giving them freedom, not dropping them to give them a kick in the arse!!
 
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brandon said:
I think game awareness does apply and is a fair statement, in this instance it’s Joe Root realising he’s been out to that ramp shot 8 times in his last 13 Tests (is that the stat?) and maybe keeping it in his bag until the last half hour of the session as opposed to the first. Or wait until he’s gone beyond 50 as opposed to still being in the teens. Then when it comes to Stokes, the same logic, maybe keep the ball on the floor (or as near as dammit) for the first 20-30 minutes after the interval. If you’re slog-sweeping you can still do that by hitting down into the ground as opposed to up in the air. He’s one of the most brutal and pleasing on the eye batsman in history (IMO) in terms of taking apart a bowler/fielding side with textbook drives, cuts and pulls.

In both instances lads were trying to run before they could walk, essentially. Yeah, I get that is ultimately the essence of ‘BazBall*’ as some people term it - but personally I think the whole idea of it is open to interpretation anyway. For me, my overriding feeling is what has already been said - the two biggest wickets of the day were our two best players and the two lads who are naturally ‘positive enough’ to not have to take unnecessary risks to make something happen.

Duckett will be furious with himself, but I won’t criticise a lad who was on 150+. The funny thing about his morning was that his downfall was actually the opposite of what we’d normally expect. Perhaps he was to defensive….? But again that still falls into the awareness category. He was sold down the river by Root for me though.
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That Root stat is shocking mind!

The frustrating thing with Stokes is that there isn’t a single player in world cricket who can move up and down the gears as easily as what he can. He’s the perfect player for the occasion in that he’s proven he can dig in, we all know how destructive he can be by being ultra attacking, but as you say even just a ‘natural’ game he can take bowlers apart by playing each ball as it comes.
 
I f*cking hate Indian commentators like. Ridiculous how biased they are.

“Superb piece of timing” as Jaiswal belts an absolute pie through cover for four. It was arguably the worst ball of the day which I’d expect any mediocre club cricketer to hit for four and the fuckers are gushing over the batsman as if it’s the greatest shot they’ve ever seen.
 
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Easy t
Mackem Attack said:
No that’s the basis of your post - we should just be happy because of how crap we have been in the past
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I think what you fail to recognise is this. Before McCullum and Stokes we were thrashed out of site in Australia, thrashed embarrassingly in India and in general our batting was piss poor. Bar Root we were miles behind these teams in terms of technique but we did have a pool of players not in the team with a lot of talent. When it goes bad it means players are getting out playing too reckless rather than edging behind or being LBW rooted to the crease. We don’t have good enough players to score runs playing technically at this level so we have tried a different approach playing differently. It’s brought us some fantastic wins but when it goes tits up on occasions it does look horrible. It seems people like the good bits but not the bits when they get out.
brandon said:
I think game awareness does apply and is a fair statement, in this instance it’s Joe Root realising he’s been out to that ramp shot 8 times in his last 13 Tests (is that the stat?) and maybe keeping it in his bag until the last half hour of the session as opposed to the first. Or wait until he’s gone beyond 50 as opposed to still being in the teens. Then when it comes to Stokes, the same logic, maybe keep the ball on the floor (or as near as dammit) for the first 20-30 minutes after the interval. If you’re slog-sweeping you can still do that by hitting down into the ground as opposed to up in the air. He’s one of the most brutal and pleasing on the eye batsman in history (IMO) in terms of taking apart a bowler/fielding side with textbook drives, cuts and pulls.

In both instances lads were trying to run before they could walk, essentially. Yeah, I get that is ultimately the essence of ‘BazBall*’ as some people term it - but personally I think the whole idea of it is open to interpretation anyway. For me, my overriding feeling is what has already been said - the two biggest wickets of the day were our two best players and the two lads who are naturally ‘positive enough’ to not have to take unnecessary risks to make something happen.

Duckett will be furious with himself, but I won’t criticise a lad who was on 150+. The funny thing about his morning was that his downfall was actually the opposite of what we’d normally expect. Perhaps he was to defensive….? But again that still falls into the awareness category. He was sold down the river by Root for me though.
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In fairness I did make the same pint re Root.A player scoring test 100s for fun at a strike rate of 70 should be changing absolutely nothing. The likes of Crawley, Duckett, Pope have been selected to bat with absolute freedom and certainly the first two don’t have the technique to play steady conventional cricket at this level. Root is the key issue
 
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Voice of fair play said:
If you really think dropping Root is the answer go against everything this team stands for and after what they have achieved in the last couple of years then no point continuing debating with you, as imo you massively missing the bigger picture of what makes this team successful.

The whole reason this team has been a brilliant successful team is backing players and giving them freedom, not dropping them to give them a kick in the arse!!
Click to expand...
I think you think you’re a great philosopher who’s decided that mindset is greater than anything. End of the day, it’s a sport and you need your best 11 players on the pitch. On form, Root is probably our worst player of the 11, and rightly so he’ll be questioned until he improves
 
Easy t
I think what you fail to recognise is this. Before McCullum and Stokes we were thrashed out of site in Australia, thrashed embarrassingly in India and in general our batting was piss poor. Bar Root we were miles behind these teams in terms of technique but we did have a pool of players not in the team with a lot of talent. When it goes bad it means players are getting out playing too reckless rather than edging behind or being LBW rooted to the crease. We don’t have good enough players to score runs playing technically at this level so we have tried a different approach playing differently. It’s brought us some fantastic wins but when it goes tits up on occasions it does look horrible. It seems people like the good bits but not the bits when they get out.


In fairness I did make the same pint re Root.A player scoring test 100s for fun at a strike rate of 70 should be changing absolutely nothing. The likes of Crawley, Duckett, Pope have been selected to bat with absolute freedom and certainly the first two don’t have the technique to play steady conventional cricket at this level. Root is the key issue
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We lost 4-1 here last time, and look on course for the same score this time. Against an Indian team must worse than last time. I’m not suggesting we haven’t improved, but we could still improve a hell of a lot and there’s no reason we have to sit here and accept that shite like today
 
Mackem Attack said:
I think you think you’re a great philosopher who’s decided that mindset is greater than anything. End of the day, it’s a sport and you need your best 11 players on the pitch. On form, Root is probably our worst player of the 11, and rightly so he’ll be questioned until he improves
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He won’t be like. I guarantee Joe Root will never be dropped by England in his entire test career.
 
brandon said:
I f*cking hate Indian commentators like. Ridiculous how biased they are.

“Superb piece of timing” as Jaiswal belts an absolute pie through cover for four. It was arguably the worst ball of the day which I’d expect any mediocre club cricketer to hit for four and the fuckers are gushing over the batsman as if it’s the greatest shot they’ve ever seen.
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They are absolutely unbearable, main reason I turned it off about an hour ago and put the radio on. As soon as they get ahead they become so arrogant. Then toxic as fuck when they start losing. Like the SMB on drugs 🤣
 
Liverpool Beachball said:
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While it's not a shot he needs to play its ridiculous to say he has wrecked England's chances to win. Several batsmen have thrown their wickets away. If it works everyone cheers and says its great, unfortunately when it goes wrong it's awful to look at. I'd prefer him to play his natural game, but equally everyone was laughing and cheering him doing it Australia first over of a day before
 
hudson88 said:
That Root stat is shocking mind!
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I was flabbergasted when I saw/heard it myself :o

hudson88 said:
The frustrating thing with Stokes is that there isn’t a single player in world cricket who can move up and down the gears as easily as what he can. He’s the perfect player for the occasion in that he’s proven he can dig in, we all know how destructive he can be by being ultra attacking, but as you say even just a ‘natural’ game he can take bowlers apart by playing each ball as it comes.
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He clipped Siraj for two fours before lunch with shots that would make the author of the MCC coaching manual purr. The second Siraj lost his line or his length Stokes punished him.
 
I like Bazzball but let’s call it what it is. Today has been garbage. From 200-2, we gifted them a 100+ lead on a flat pitch when they’re also a bowler down.

As for Root, no idea why he doesn’t play his natural game. He’s too good to be getting out this way.
 
Inside Forward said:
Just woke up. Can’t f***ing believe that England collapse. Gutted.
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Think yourself lucky you haven’t endured it all.
Mackem Attack said:
They are absolutely unbearable, main reason I turned it off about an hour ago and put the radio on. As soon as they get ahead they become so arrogant. Then toxic as fuck when they start losing. Like the SMB on drugs 🤣
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By comparison; Duckett slog-swept Kuldeep yesterday for a one bounce four and going off the commentary you’d have thought they were watching someone murdering their pet hamster.
 
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