The ref (see PGMOL thread)

[SAFC Wilks]

TalkSPORT going in on Tony Mowbray this morning for critiquing a ref for making a decision within the rules. Ref ruined the game but he got beat 4-0. The ref followed the rules and rightly sent him off according to talkSPORT

I'm livid at that, might have to ring their premium phone line to argue.

 

[Missplaced Childhood]

Well yeah never disputed he had a bad game, as he clearly did, my points are more general about difficulty of giving decisions in real time for refs in general

Well no mate my points are general points rather than just Saturday and although he had a bad game on Saturday.

It stands to reason in the past he will have had a lot of games to be where he is in the first place.

Abd what he does going forward should take into account all his performances both good and bad.

Just like players are, that’s simply logical sense

Basically I see it like this, each ref goes out to try his best under extremely proven difficult circumstances, understandably under them circumstances he will make mistakes some will be worse than others and some will be better than others.

And granted on Saturday ref had a bad game

I take the rough with the smooth and accept some days they will go for us some day they won’t.

That’s football always has been.

That’s it, all the rest is bullshit, every football club thinks they club get the rough end of the stick with ref decisions when it’s impossible for that to be the case.

And every ref at the top level has obviously done a lot of things right or they would not be there in the first place.

All sense of logic and common sense is lost when discussing this subject, only football gets sensible people lose all sense of perspective

These werent difficult decisions to get wrong though, he simply chose not to give bookings when the letter of the law says he should have, if he had laid the law down earlier than maybe Neil thinks twice about gobbing off instead of thinking its fine having seen a Boro player tell him to fuck off in his face minutes before.

 

[Voice of fair play]

These werent difficult decisions to get wrong though, he simply chose not to give bookings when the letter of the law says he should have, if he had laid the law down earlier than maybe Neil thinks twice about gobbing off instead of thinking its fine having seen a Boro player tell him to fuck off in his face minutes before.

Like I said mate I am talkinh in general, ref clearly had bad game of Saturday

 

[soapster]

Well yeah never disputed he had a bad game, as he clearly did, my points are more general about difficulty of giving decisions in real time for refs in general

Well no mate my points are general points rather than just Saturday and although he had a bad game on Saturday.

It stands to reason in the past he will have had a lot of games to be where he is in the first place.

Abd what he does going forward should take into account all his performances both good and bad.

Just like players are, that’s simply logical sense

Basically I see it like this, each ref goes out to try his best under extremely proven difficult circumstances, understandably under them circumstances he will make mistakes some will be worse than others and some will be better than others.

And granted on Saturday ref had a bad game

I take the rough with the smooth and accept some days they will go for us some day they won’t.

That’s football always has been.

That’s it, all the rest is bullshit, every football club thinks they club get the rough end of the stick with ref decisions when it’s impossible for that to be the case.

And every ref at the top level has obviously done a lot of things right or they would not be there in the first place.

All sense of logic and common sense is lost when discussing this subject, only football gets sensible people lose all sense of perspective

that is how most of us see it.

It is wrong for you to argue on a general approach, when people are complaining on specific actions

It makes you look foolish and argumentative. You certainly are not foolish

Yet in general terms your arguments are correct and balanced, but cannot ignore where bad decisions have been made. they are 2 different situations

Mind you sometimes comments are put in about referees, when it is an assumption by the poster and not based on fact.

 

[Voice of fair play]

that is how most of us see it.

It is wrong for you to argue on a general approach, when people are complaining on specific actions

It makes you look foolish and argumentative. You certainly are not foolish

Yet in general terms your arguments are correct and balanced, but cannot ignore where bad decisions have been made. they are 2 different situations

Mind you sometimes comments are put in about referees, when it is an assumption by the poster and not based on fact.

Well mate I have admitted and said several times the ref had a bad game on Saturday that will happen sometimes it’s life unfortunately there is nothing else to it.

Refs have bad games just like players of course they do.

As long as people take notice of good games and have balance that is fair enough, nothing wrong with saying ref had a bad game, but saying he should never ref again and he is rubbish based of isolated games is not right imo

It’s when more is made of it other than as well that I object too, your stoke example you put in previous post is another example, nothing really sure what you getting at it’s just coincidence nothing more than they have been unlucky.

 

[hank williams]

Jeff winters take on it

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[G Force]

It’s the lack of people looking at bigger picture and reasons for these mistakes that gets me.

Year after year, month after month you get these threads after ref after ref fails to book or send people off.

It’s happened for years.

At what point do fans step back and say?

Maybe it’s not as easy as it looks maybe having to give decisions in real time is really difficult.

After all, all the evidence shows that.

Or is it just every ref from every era is just shit?

It’s the first one that makes common sense to me

Why do care so passionately about defending refs though?

I’ve asked you before whether you’re a Sunderland fan, whether you have any affiliation to refs and whether you solely post on this forum or if you’re across other clubs forums too

I’m yet to get answer.

You’re entitled to post on here regardless and I wouldn’t care even if you were a mag referee you’re at least always courteous, but I am curious as to your background and why you post so much on refs, even down to choosing your username. You’re certainly not just a regular Sunderland fan on here

 

[soapster]

Well mate I have admitted and said several times the ref had a bad game on Saturday that will happen sometimes it’s life unfortunately there is nothing else to it.

Refs have bad games just like players of course they do.

As long as people take notice of good games and have balance that is fair enough, nothing wrong with saying ref had a bad game, but saying he should never ref again and he is rubbish based of isolated games is not right imo

It’s when more is made of it other than as well that I object too, your stoke example you put in previous post is another example, nothing really sure what you getting at it’s just coincidence nothing more than they have been unlucky.

does not matter what you do, you can have a bad day.

I can remember being told a story, cannot recall if it was from a footballer or a referee.

footballer thinks a ref made a bad decision. he remonstrates with the ref and ends up saying, "you call yourself a referee". Ref lets it go. A while later in the same game the footballer misses an absolute sitter.

Ref casually jogs past him and says " you call yourself a footballer"

as for the stoke comment. what is to be made of it. are those 6 decisions justifiable. were stoke just unlucky or is there an issue that needs looking into. either way, it cannot be ignored.

I like to watch dermott on a monday morning with ref watch. It is quite interesting and brings up a number of issues.

However I saw a clip of paul merson having a go at mike dean on saturday. Paul Merson was completely in wrong and not getting the point that referees are there to enforce the rules and cannot do something he is not entitled to do because he thinks it may be right to undo a wrong. merson needs to apologise to mike dean on air.

 

[redandwhiterob]

Why do care so passionately about defending refs though?

I’ve asked you before whether you’re a Sunderland fan, whether you have any affiliation to refs and whether you solely post on this forum or if you’re across other clubs forums too

I’m yet to get answer.

You’re entitled to post on here regardless and I wouldn’t care even if you were a mag referee you’re at least always courteous, but I am curious as to your background and why you post so much on refs, even down to choosing your username. You’re certainly not just a regular Sunderland fan on here

What's actually wrong with defending officials? You may not like mine and others opinions but we put forward perfectly valid arguments and if anything its those who slag them off constantly who tend to run away when you get into the nitty gritty of a debate. I dont post my opinion to wind people up. I get as pissed off as anybody when something doesn't go our way but ultimately of its our team or another I'm consistent with my views and they don't change like the wind depending if something goes for Sunderland or against us. That can certainly be leveled at quite a few posters when it comes to these debates

 

[G Force]

What's actually wrong with defending officials? You may not like mine and others opinions but we put forward perfectly valid arguments and if anything its those who slag them off constantly who tend to run away when you get into the nitty gritty of a debate. I dont post my opinion to wind people up. I get as pissed off as anybody when something doesn't go our way but ultimately of its our team or another I'm consistent with my views and they don't change like the wind depending if something goes for Sunderland or against us. That can certainly be leveled at quite a few posters when it comes to these debates

Sorry?

 

[redandwhiterob]

Sorry?

You asked someone why the care about defending officials

 

[G Force]

You asked someone why the care about defending officials

And your reply was miles off on a tangent

 

[AC Mack]

It's the way of the world unfortunately.

There is very little or no accountability these days and you can bet your bottom dollar that Gillett will be officiating another high profile or Premier League game after the international break.

I feel the opposite. We live in quite a toxic blame culture society where people are always being asked to account for their actions. Society is desperate to point the finger.

This is one of the reasons people are always going on about referees having to explain their decisions or being miced up.

 

[redandwhiterob]

And your reply was miles off on a tangent

I don't think it particularly was tbf

 

[Voice of fair play]

Why do care so passionately about defending refs though?

I’ve asked you before whether you’re a Sunderland fan, whether you have any affiliation to refs and whether you solely post on this forum or if you’re across other clubs forums too

I’m yet to get answer.

You’re entitled to post on here regardless and I wouldn’t care even if you were a mag referee you’re at least always courteous, but I am curious as to your background and why you post so much on refs, even down to choosing your username. You’re certainly not just a regular Sunderland fan on here

That’s an easy answer mate, firstly normally if I have been asked that question before I would have replied so apologies if I missed it.

Firstly I am the first to admit, with always been a football player rather than a football watcher, I am not the most passionate Sunderland fan out there as was always playing football rather than watching, hence not regular going to games.

Secondly I honestly genuinely think the whole culture and treatment of officials in football as opposed to other sports is nothing short of a disgrace.

What people have used once or twice on this threads is the word ‘empathy’ I am genuinely puzzled where everyone involved has not got empathy for one person having to deal with in the main 22 players trying to con and cheat that person, not to mention thousands of fans screaming abuse at him.

When all they doing in the main is making decisions to the best of their ability.

Mr Clough would be appalled

You don’t see anything even close to the abuse and over the top scrutiny officials get in football in any other sports, when basically they doing exactly the same giving decisions on that sport.

I think it’s totally unfair their treatment that simple really.

Refs have bad games, what’s wrong with just saying that?

All this he wants to be Star of the show, Homer, biased, cheat is just totally ridiculous in my humble opinion mate.

 

[G Force]

That’s an easy answer mate, firstly normally if I have been asked that question before I would have replied so apologies if I missed it.

Firstly I am the first to admit, with always been a football player rather than a football watcher, I am not the most passionate Sunderland fan out there as was always playing football rather than watching, hence not regular going to games.

Secondly I honestly genuinely think the whole culture and treatment of officials in football as opposed to other sports is nothing short of a disgrace.

What people have used once or twice on this threads is the word ‘empathy’ I am genuinely puzzled where everyone involved has not got empathy for one person having to deal with in the main 22 players trying to con and cheat that person, not to mention thousands of fans screaming abuse at him.

When all they doing in the main is making decisions to the best of their ability.

Mr Clough would be appalled

You don’t see anything even close to the abuse and over the top scrutiny officials get in football in any other sports, when basically they doing exactly the same giving decisions on that sport.

I think it’s totally unfair their treatment that simple really.

Refs have bad games, what’s wrong with just saying that?

All this he wants to be Star of the show, Homer, biased, cheat is just totally ridiculous in my humble opinion mate.

Thanks mate, all completely fair. Wasn’t having a dig, just curious as to the threads we usually appear on together (sometimes same side, sometimes opposite )

Just being nosy as to who I was debating with a lot Aware you weren’t the regular fan, more just down the choice of username rather than anything else. Have a good night

 

[Voice of fair play]

does not matter what you do, you can have a bad day.

I can remember being told a story, cannot recall if it was from a footballer or a referee.

footballer thinks a ref made a bad decision. he remonstrates with the ref and ends up saying, "you call yourself a referee". Ref lets it go. A while later in the same game the footballer misses an absolute sitter.

Ref casually jogs past him and says " you call yourself a footballer"

as for the stoke comment. what is to be made of it. are those 6 decisions justifiable. were stoke just unlucky or is there an issue that needs looking into. either way, it cannot be ignored.

I like to watch dermott on a monday morning with ref watch. It is quite interesting and brings up a number of issues.

However I saw a clip of paul merson having a go at mike dean on saturday. Paul Merson was completely in wrong and not getting the point that referees are there to enforce the rules and cannot do something he is not entitled to do because he thinks it may be right to undo a wrong. merson needs to apologise to mike dean on air.

Stoke are obviously just unlucky, you not seriously suggesting there is a conspiracy against Stoke for some mysterious unknown reason?

As for your second and third line you right the banter has gone between player and ref which is sad.

But I firmly put the over the top reaction and treatment of refs as the reason for that, rather than just accepting they will have good and bad games like players.

Thanks mate, all completely fair. Wasn’t having a dig, just curious as to the threads we usually appear on together (sometimes same side, sometimes opposite )

Just being nosy as to who I was debating with a lot Aware you weren’t the regular fan, more just down the choice of username rather than anything else. Have a good night

Absolutely no bother at all mate, they my genuine opinions and I enjoy the crack, however I am the first to admit I am argumentative and can’t leave things

 

[G Force]

Absolutely no bother at all mate, they my genuine opinions and I enjoy the crack, however I am the first to admit I am argumentative and can’t leave things

similar

 

[Boro9]

The only thing I would take issue with is 3 NE clubs in the premiership. One would be terrorist state backed club and there should be no place for sports washing in the premier league.

Apart from that a well balanced and fair post.

Shame you can’t take the moron WUM embarrassing your club on here somewhere else.

Yes true but would be good for the North East I suppose

 

[Northumberland Rocks]

Yes true but would be good for the North East I suppose

A Saudi terrorist state is not the NE