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The Pep myth

essex boy said:
I would argue domestic titles are harder to win that cups, others may disagree. Pep has won a lot of titles in his career as a manager

City finished 4th in the league and semi finals of the CL the season before he took over
Bayern had won the title by 25 points the season before he took over
Barcelona finished third in the league and semi-finals of CL the season before he took over

Clubs were hardly up sh*t creek when he took over, but he certainly changed the way they play for the better. I think Fergie will always edge it until maybe Pep takes over a club more in the doldrums to be able to give a fair comparison,
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Best example now would be him taking over United and winning the league within 3 years
kildaremackem said:
he got barcelona to win by cheating..
he failed at bayern..
he got man city to win by cheating..
no evidence he is good at anything except being a frint man for cheats and criminals..
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He won 3 titles at Bayern by record margins and points. Not exactly failing is it?
 
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kildaremackem said:
he got barcelona to win by cheating..
he failed at bayern..
he got man city to win by cheating..
no evidence he is good at anything except being a frint man for cheats and criminals..
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3 league titles in 3 seasons at Bayern. Done the double twice.

That's not a failure.


There's not many other managers who are called failures for not winning the champions league, purely because their domestic standards are so impeccably high.
 
What A Waster said:
3 league titles in 3 seasons at Bayern. Done the double twice.

That's not a failure.


There's not many other managers who are called failures for not winning the champions league, purely because their domestic standards are so impeccably high.
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Everyone wins the title at Bayern. Everyone. It's more one sided than Scotland. Not winning the Champions League there a blot but harsh to say his record there as 'failure'.
 
Wrenthorpe Mackem said:
Everyone wins the title at Bayern. Everyone. It's more one sided than Scotland. Not winning the Champions League there a blot but harsh to say his record there as 'failure'.
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Agreed. That's my point. In terms of trophies he achieved par. But still set records in doing so. Everybody wins the league, but its how you win it.
 
What A Waster said:
3 league titles in 3 seasons at Bayern. Done the double twice.

That's not a failure.


There's not many other managers who are called failures for not winning the champions league, purely because their domestic standards are so impeccably high.
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it is at bayern..he was brought in to win the champions leagyue and didnt..bayern have won the german league for a huge number of years consecutively since Pep left..so he achieved nothing of any note there...
 
kildaremackem said:
it is at bayern..he was brought in to win the champions leagyue and didnt..bayern have won the german league for a huge number of years consecutively since Pep left..so he achieved nothing of any note there...
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Bayern have won the champions league/European cup 6 times in their history.

Does that mean other than 6 seasons in their history every season has been a failure?
 
What A Waster said:
Bayern have won the champions league/European cup 6 times in their history.

Does that mean other than 6 seasons in their history every season has been a failure?
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no because for a huge number of those seasons they didnt aspire to win it/think they had a realistic chance of foing so...Pep was hired with the specific target of winning the champions league..he didnt..so he failed to hit the target set for him..thats called failing..he didnt of course have the advantage of either financial or actual doping at bayern that he has had elsewhere..
 
What A Waster said:
Bayern have won the champions league/European cup 6 times in their history.

Does that mean other than 6 seasons in their history every season has been a failure?
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Depends
Pep went there to win the CL. They have won the league 11 yrs in a row - if a new manager went in and won the league for the 12th time next season and got knocked out of the CL straight away, would that be seen as a success?
 
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kildaremackem said:
no because for a huge number of those seasons they didnt aspire to win it/think they had a realistic chance of foing so...Pep was hired with the specific target of winning the champions league..he didnt..so he failed to hit the target set for him..thats called failing..he didnt of course have the advantage of either financial or actual doping at bayern that he has had elsewhere..
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You do recall they won it in 2013? The same year Guardiola was appointed.
offmenut said:
Depends
Pep went there to win the CL. They have won the league 11 yrs in a row - if a new manager went in and won the league for the 12th time next season and got knocked out if the CL straight away, would that be seen as a success?
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Par
 
What A Waster said:
Bayern have won the champions league/European cup 6 times in their history.

Does that mean other than 6 seasons in their history every season has been a failure?
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When the manager appointed is touted as a 'genius' then maybe he's being held to a higher standard. The other obvious point is that Bayern weren't always as dominant as they have been in recent times.
 
Wrenthorpe Mackem said:
When the manager appointed is touted as a 'genius' then maybe he's being held to a higher standard. The other obvious point is that Bayern weren't always as dominant as they have been in recent times.
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bayern won it the year prior to him taking over..so just holding him to the standard of his immediate predesecessor..which is surely a good measure of success...indicates he failed.
 
kildaremackem said:
bayern won it the year prior to him taking over..so just holding him to the standard of his immediate predesecessor..which is surely a good measure of success...indicates he failed.
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So are you saying if the previous manager does a treble and you don't repeat it then its a failure?
 
Wrenthorpe Mackem said:
When the manager appointed is touted as a 'genius' then maybe he's being held to a higher standard. The other obvious point is that Bayern weren't always as dominant as they have been in recent times.
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Yes, people looking at it from the perspective of Bayern winning 11 in a row. In the 7 years before Guardiola waa at Bayern the Bundesliga was won by Stuttgart, Bayern, Wolfsburg, Bayern, Dortmund x2 and then Bayern.
Do not exactly the dominance that people view it with now
 
What A Waster said:
So are you saying if the previous manager does a treble and you don't repeat it then its a failure?
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of course it depends on the circumtstances..if its the exact same sqaud then maybe yes..

Pep was brought in to win the champions league at bayern and didnt..
What A Waster said:
Yes, people looking at it from the perspective of Bayern winning 11 in a row. In the 7 years before Guardiola waa at Bayern the Bundesliga was won by Stuttgart, Bayern, Wolfsburg, Bayern, Dortmund x2 and then Bayern.
Do not exactly the dominance that people view it with now
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good points..but in the year prior to Pep they had won the champs league..so their elevation or upward trajectopry had already started before him..rather than him starting it..
 
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