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VARguments
- Thread starter bernardbresslaw
- Start date
doodlebugs
Striker
,well after yesterday the powers that be might just get it right
flusheding
Striker
This thread is a pretty funny read. Anyone remotely against VAR jumping up and down as if there are 50 of these accidents happening every weekend.
VAR has improved things on the whole *in terms of getting the right result in the end*. But the more right things it finds the bigger you notice the wrong decisions. (I'm not talking about slowing the game down or other opinions on the implementation of it currently).
Unless anyone can link to a previous example this is the first time a VAR and a pitch side ref have accidentally ended up thinking they were agreeing with each other when they weren't. In what, like 3-4 seasons of 380 games a season?
VAR can DEFINITELY be improved on how it is used in the PL, but the idea of giving referees the ability to consult video replays seems an absolute basic thing for any sport in 2023.
riffraff
Striker
it ”works” in every other country. UEFA and FIFA have the hump with the English football authorities because of their different usage of var. “We” are doing it wrong. That’s all that’s not working.
D
Deleted member 53903
Guest
I’d agree that to some extent it works better in the continent and the automated offside is something that should be standard.
On the offsides, it can never be perfect (when exactly is the ball played for example).
But I can’t say that for handball or slowing down challenges for example it can ever work. I just don’t like it and I think it takes away more than it provides. And it is still very subjective.
Bear
Striker
A mate who knows Clattenburg says he said never been a better time to be an official basically fast tracking any one who can blow a whistle or wave a flag
viccarlton
Striker
The concept of referees consulting video replays is in essence a good thing, it’s how each referee or video assistant interprets them is the problem.
ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK
Winger
The Diaz 'goal' would have been flagged offside immediately and Diaz may not have even scored as he didn't shoot immediately so wouldn't even exist in the 1st place. It's impossible to know how many legitimate goals could have been scored if play had continued. This is why this rule is in place, let play go on and as soon as the possibility of an immediate goal in that phase is gone then stop play for offside, or even play on depending on what happens (linesman can tell ref it's offside through microphone).
The other thing people don't realise is that linesman also don't flag offside as often now as they would pre VAR. They now leave the close decisions to VAR (supposedly) to sort out and they're only supposed to flag offside during play when they're certain. What this helps do is stop them looking like the 'bad guy' getting it wrong and disallowing a goal and then getting shit from match day fans. Instead it's VAR that the vitriol is directed at instead of one bloke.
This is why it's rarer that 'offside' goals are corrected by VAR and given when a linesman had actually flagged offside (which is what should have happened here). This is also the reason why everyone moans about goals being disallowed for a toenail but rarely about the linesman flagging a player offside who was a toenail onside.
Is that not due to the shite officials get at all levels, right down to kids level. They get shite from players and also fans/parents on the sidelines. They're even trialling refs wearing bodycams in the hope of stopping the abuse.
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Do refs in rugby get the same shite down the various levels of rugby? Top level they certainly don't as there is respect, however in football players/managers and even some fans still moan like fuck or berate the officials. Aye they now get a yellow card but you still see it happening. It needs to be stricter like rugby so the officials are respected by players and the attitudes of the players and those watching isn't a angry as it is.
Who would want to be a footy ref and go through the levels given the abuse they constantly get? Though again, note how it's now VAR that most of the vitriol is directed at with incorrect decisions rather than the on-field officials. It's mostly "Why did VAR miss that" or "Why did VAR do this?"
This is because they don't want to interrupt the flow of the game as much and it's to appease the fans. In the 1st season of VAR, they were stopping it for all sorts and it was making games much longer and there was hell on. They brought in the Clear & Obvious thing to stop this and supposedly raised the bar even this season higher to stop the interruptions. However you then get decisions that would probably be given the other way if watched on replays by the main ref left as is and now VAR is even more shite.
I've said this for ages now given VAR isn't going away. Hoy the main ref in the video room and have his assistant ref the game on the pitch. The main ref then steps in 'immediately' when a decision is given incorrectly by the on-field officials. No need for the clear and obvious shite and a repeated video review at the sidelines as it's all done far quicker. The main ref watches it again and makes his decision (after a few replays, not 20 times each from 3 angles). Just the same way we can all make instant decisions when watching the few replays on TV in a short time.
He could correct yellow card decisions and ask his assistant to book a player next time there's a break in play (for diving or missed offences) or even correct yellows that have mistakenly been given to stop a player getting a 2nd genuine yellow and being sent off. This would also eliminate the player himself knowing another yellow and he's off or the manager having to sub a player.
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safcforever
Striker
Might have been covered already
Apparently the VAR team thought the ref gave it as a goal. They sent the message to the ref that it was checked and decision was correct
Them once they realized the ref didn’t award the goal it was a few minutes later and too late to give. That’s embarrassing
Apparently the VAR team thought the ref gave it as a goal. They sent the message to the ref that it was checked and decision was correct
Them once they realized the ref didn’t award the goal it was a few minutes later and too late to give. That’s embarrassing
ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK
Winger
It's already used in the World Cup, Champions League and other countries leagues such as Serie A in Italy and La Liga in Spain. I do know that there needs to be 12 cameras and not all PL grounds will have this installed. They also didn't want to install it as it's evolving so would soon be out of date!
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A more detailed explanation here
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They were offered it for this season but refused it as clubs voted against it. They did bring in 4 extra cameras for it but obviously that still didn't stop what happened yesterday. Yet if VAR worked like rugby the officials would have clearly discussed what decision needed reviewing and realised their mistake rather than VAR just saying "Check complete". Or even simply by saying adding after the "Check complete, goal CORRECT decision" and the ref then saying "Ya daft knacker, it was flagged offside man" means the goal would have been given.
It will probably be in for next season now after this fuck up. Though even that wouldn't stop it as VAR thought it was onside anyway which is what the semi-automated stuff would have done.
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They need to improve communication and aye people say it's hectic given the audio that they've released but some of this is the players on the pitch moaning instantly. Again they need disciplined and instant yellow card if they go towards the ref while he's discussing owt with VAR. They will soon learn to keep their trap shut and even then just allow the captains to have a word when the ref allows like they do in rugby. Look at the difference in making this decision, especially at 32 secs when the ref tells a player to go away and he instantly does.
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.or this as football players are neanderthal in comparison to the respect this ref gets from rugby players
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."It's not soccer" at 1 min 47 secs and again at 2:50
I don't watch rugby as I think it's shite but football needs to adapt to get players to act more like rugby players rather than whingey moaning twisty abusive brats
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safctommie
Winger
I thought VAR would get rid of refs cheating,but clearly not.
They only have to look at the positioning of 22 players max,usually no more than three or four.It shouldn’t be hard.
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gipetto
Striker
Even rugby is getting things wrong mind, which will always be the case but the amount of simple decisions VAR is getting wrong in football is unacceptable. You're sat their aghast wondering how they've managed to cock some of them up as badly as they have done.It's already used in the World Cup, Champions League and other countries leagues such as Serie A in Italy and La Liga in Spain. I do know that there needs to be 12 cameras and not all PL grounds will have this installed. They also didn't want to install it as it's evolving so would soon be out of date!
You must be logged on to see external links
You must be logged on to see media items
A more detailed explanation here
You must be logged on to see external linksThey were offered it for this season but refused it as clubs voted against it. They did bring in 4 extra cameras for it but obviously that still didn't stop what happened yesterday. Yet if VAR worked like rugby the officials would have clearly discussed what decision needed reviewing and realised their mistake rather than VAR just saying "Check complete". Or even simply by saying adding after the "Check complete, goal CORRECT decision" and the ref then saying "Ya daft knacker, it was flagged offside man" means the goal would have been given.
It will probably be in for next season now after this fuck up. Though even that wouldn't stop it as VAR thought it was onside anyway which is what the semi-automated stuff would have done.
You must be logged on to see external links
They need to improve communication and aye people say it's hectic given the audio that they've released but some of this is the players on the pitch moaning instantly. Again they need disciplined and instant yellow card if they go towards the ref while he's discussing owt with VAR. They will soon learn to keep their trap shut and even then just allow the captains to have a word when the ref allows like they do in rugby. Look at the difference in making this decision, especially at 32 secs when the ref tells a player to go away and he instantly does.
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or this as football players are neanderthal in comparison to the respect this ref gets from rugby players
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"It's not soccer" at 1 min 47 secs and again at 2:50
forever changes
Winger
Sky have enough bellends
Flea Market Trader
Striker
Are you trying to provoke an argument. If so then I bid you farewell.
ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK
Winger
I don't watch rugby but they are a different level when it comes to decision making and how they go about it, along with the behaviour of the players. This error is down to communication which should have been implemented in the first place, though how the fuck did VAR not see them going to take the free kick instead of the kick off?
They've panicked and hoyed up the offside graphic but for obvious reasons they didn't put the lines on. Maybe they were hoping nobody would notice
Yet there was less chance of someone not noticing the cop behind this pole.
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That’s not how the Hawkeye ball tracking technology itself works in cricket. That uses multiple imaging units at multiple positions to to track the actual trajectory of the ball, and then project it from the point of impact. The calculation is a simple ballistic one and the margin of error is determinable, quantifiable, and can be more or less as low as you want it to be if you pay for enough high resolution imaging devices.
The end on camera is then used to generate a fake projected image to keep the TV audience happy and add to the drama. But that’s not how the ball’s trajectory is determined. The semi automated system for offside works in much the same way, using I think 16 separate cameras to reconstruct the position on the field of play numerically and using that reconstruction to determine offside. Again, after that to keep the TV audience happy, a fake virtual image is then generated of the offside incident, but this fake image is not what is used to answer the question about the players’ positions.
Importantly, in both cases, this takes any human judgement entirely out of the equation.
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PrisonBroken
Striker
Exactly my point use the technology properly to the point it is no longer accurate enough. Twatting about drawing lines or not is no use to anyone
You might recall during the World Cup that one of the teething problems with the offside system was that the virtual image of the players could take minutes to be generated, appearing long after the decision had been given and on one occasion, I think during the first match, appeared to contradict the decision that it was supposedly supporting. That’s because it wasn’t actually used for anything except to keep the TV audience happy.
Fair enough, I misunderstood where you were coming from. We are in complete agreement as regards twatting about with lines.
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Nathan Gunn
Striker
It hasn’t stopped the clear and obvious mistakes it was meant to. We now just have to wait longer to get the mistakes
