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The Pep myth


What A Waster said:
This is true. I think Mourinho is an excellent manager. Or was. Probably still is tbf. But done his best work when with an unfancied bunch. He made Chelsea into a great team and they won 2 leagues brilliantly.
My point was just because there's "unlimited" funds doesn't guarantee it. In the era Mourinho went to Chelsea there was no FFP and they could and did spend what they want but it didn't bring them CL success under him.
So whoever it was saying "put Mourinho and x,y,z manager in that position and they'd do the same" isn't correct imo, because we have empirical evidence of Mourinho not doing that.

Yeah, bad decision. They didn't score over the two legs though.

He won 2 out of 4 with Barca. 50% win ratio. Does any other managers get held against such high standards?

In 14 seasons of management he has won 3 European Cups. I'm not sure there's anybody with a better record who has managed for 14 seasons or more
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Its not about standards its about realistic expectations with the teams he’s managing

That Barcelona team with the best ever football player in Messi and he won half the euro titles he had chance of

Ancelotti has been more impressive in the champions league and he’s never had the best player in the world in his team

Zidane has arguable been more impressive in the champions league
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TheStinger said:
The top managers would, though. Fergie, Clough, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Wenger. Its taken him 12 years to win another Champions League. And it took him over a billion spend it with the 3rd team he tried it with. Praising someone with 115 charges at one club, and a shitload to add on to that at Barcelona when he was managing is normalising cheating. You can excuse a bit of bullshit, but look at the money they've spent from every aspect of that club. Its shocking to be fair.
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You mention Fergie, but what was his record in Europe? Cup Winners Cup with Aberdeen then 2 Champions Leagues in 27 years vs 3 in 14. FFP didn't exist then but is City's spending more now greater than Man United's in the 90s and early 00s? They outspent everyone by miles and lost the league on the only two times they didn't (Blackburn and Chelsea) whereas City's spend under Pep is on par with a Man United for starters
 
Definitely Maybe said:
You mention Fergie, but what was his record in Europe? Cup Winners Cup with Aberdeen then 2 Champions Leagues in 27 years vs 3 in 14. FFP didn't exist then but is City's spending more now greater than Man United's in the 90s and early 00s? They outspent everyone by miles and lost the league on the only two times they didn't (Blackburn and Chelsea) whereas City's spend under Pep is on par with a Man United for starters
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Are you kidding ? Even bringing in inflation that doesnt change the fact that Pep has spent over £1billion on transfers at city where as Fergie spent about £400million in his entire 23 year at United

An absolute joke of an attempted comparison and debate, probably up there with the worst in the history of the internet
 
Toronado said:
Are you kidding ? Even bringing in inflation that doesnt change the fact that Pep has spent over £1billion on transfers at city where as Fergie spent about £400million in his entire 23 year at United

An absolute joke of an attempted comparison and debate, probably up there with the worst in the history of the internet
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You are comparing apples with oranges.
Why don't you compare Fergie's spend with the clubs that were his main rivals ?
Also, compare the money that Pep has spent over his 7 years at City, with his major title rivals (I would include MUFC in that, to show their expenditure, but not necessarily being competitive).
MUFC have been a disaster since Fergie left - perhaps the Media could look at how his fall-out with the Irish racehorse owners, resulted in them selling-out to the Glazers ?
Or perhaps, how the MUFC team were in such a soory state when he left ?
 
Pep guardiola is a game changer.
He’s managed 3 top teams but he’s changed,improved and developed his arch team to play his way.
He’s changed the way football is played.
Almost Every single team that is successful now plays with possession of the ball and presses, runs, sprints and outworks the opposition when they haven’t got it.
Pep guardiola is the reason for this.

He’s he’s had the money and luxury of great players.
But he’s also got rid of players that many thought he shouldn’t and improved players that many thought couldn’t aswell.

Stones is a huge example.
Grealish aswell. Last season most people were doubting him.
This season he’s learned to play peps way.
Ederson, Dias, ake,stones, Rodri, silva, mahrez, grealish, gundagon, we’re all very good players but have all been made better and into machines under him.

Anyone who says pep guardiola isn’t one of the best managers of all time is a nutter
 
Toronado said:
But should be nowhere near any discussion about the best manager ever !

Aberdeen with Fergie
Porto with Mourinho
Ancelotti for his sheer number

Pep has nothing like that

He has magical players in all his success’ and a lot of money spent
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What a load of shite.
mackem1989 said:
Many top managers would,

He could have any player he wanted

He hasn’t worked from the bottom year on year.
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But haven't.
Toronado said:
Its not about standards its about realistic expectations with the teams he’s managing

That Barcelona team with the best ever football player in Messi and he won half the euro titles he had chance of

Ancelotti has been more impressive in the champions league and he’s never had the best player in the world in his team

Zidane has arguable been more impressive in the champions league
You must be logged on to see media items
Click to expand...
Guardiola didn't takeover with Messi as the best ever did he? And if it were that simple why didn't Barcelona win every single trophy every season Messi played for them?
 
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Oli Wagkz said:
Not wrong mate.

Fell into Barca’s best ever crop of players(and the greatest of all time), managed in a one team league and then spent £1.3b at city.
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He’s a big reason why they became Barca’s best ever crop IMO. He obviously inherited a lot of very talented players but they had been a mess of a team in the last couple of years under Rijkaard and just about every player from that crop credits Pep’s coaching for taking them to the next level.
 
Maravilla said:
He’s a big reason why they became Barca’s best ever crop IMO. He obviously inherited a lot of very talented players but they had been a mess of a team in the last couple of years under Rijkaard and just about every player from that crop credits Pep’s coaching for taking them to the next level.
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You'd think Pep had absolutely no impact on that Barca side, as though he just turned up and let the players do their thing. It's complete bollocks.
 
What A Waster said:
This is true. I think Mourinho is an excellent manager. Or was. Probably still is tbf. But done his best work when with an unfancied bunch. He made Chelsea into a great team and they won 2 leagues brilliantly.
My point was just because there's "unlimited" funds doesn't guarantee it. In the era Mourinho went to Chelsea there was no FFP and they could and did spend what they want but it didn't bring them CL success under him.
So whoever it was saying "put Mourinho and x,y,z manager in that position and they'd do the same" isn't correct imo, because we have empirical evidence of Mourinho not doing that.

Yeah, bad decision. They didn't score over the two legs though.

He won 2 out of 4 with Barca. 50% win ratio. Does any other managers get held against such high standards?

In 14 seasons of management he has won 3 European Cups. I'm not sure there's anybody with a better record who has managed for 14 seasons or more
Click to expand...
Well Bob Paisley did it in 9 years.
 
Buzzers boot boy said:
Pep guardiola is a game changer.
He’s managed 3 top teams but he’s changed,improved and developed his arch team to play his way.
He’s changed the way football is played.
Almost Every single team that is successful now plays with possession of the ball and presses, runs, sprints and outworks the opposition when they haven’t got it.
Pep guardiola is the reason for this.

He’s he’s had the money and luxury of great players.
But he’s also got rid of players that many thought he shouldn’t and improved players that many thought couldn’t aswell.

Stones is a huge example.
Grealish aswell. Last season most people were doubting him.
This season he’s learned to play peps way.
Ederson, Dias, ake,stones, Rodri, silva, mahrez, grealish, gundagon, we’re all very good players but have all been made better and into machines under him.

Anyone who says pep guardiola isn’t one of the best managers of all time is a nutter
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All Grealish does is fall over and play 2 touch, I think he has gone backwards under Pep, as good as the manager is.
Love PG but the Inter coach deserves all the plaudits last night tbf, there isn’t one Inter player who would get in City team, but for one deflected cross, a great finish from Rodri and awful finishing by Inter Pep wouldn’t have his treble.
 
Toronado said:
Its not about standards its about realistic expectations with the teams he’s managing

That Barcelona team with the best ever football player in Messi and he won half the euro titles he had chance of

Ancelotti has been more impressive in the champions league and he’s never had the best player in the world in his team

Zidane has arguable been more impressive in the champions league
You must be logged on to see media items
Click to expand...
Didn't realise Keegan was part of their coaching staff as well.
 
Red and white TID said:
All Grealish does is fall over and play 2 touch, I think he has gone backwards under Pep, as good as the manager is.
Love PG but the Inter coach deserves all the plaudits last night tbf, there isn’t one Inter player who would get in City team, but for one deflected cross, a great finish from Rodri and awful finishing by Inter Pep wouldn’t have his treble.
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You don’t get to play in a treble winning side, with unlimited money if all you do is play 2 touch and fall over a bit.
 
Arfa Sleep said:
What a load of shite.

But haven't.

Guardiola didn't takeover with Messi as the best ever did he? And if it were that simple why didn't Barcelona win every single trophy every season Messi played for them?
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How is that shite ? And what has he achieved that is a shock or that he basically shouldnt ?!?

He’s had everything necessary to have achieved more than what he has, blokes a very good manager who’s brought other managers and styles of play up but he hasnt achieved anything as I say at a club that shouldnt be like the best ever have.
 
Toronado said:
How is that shite ? And what has he achieved that is a shock or that he basically shouldnt ?!?

He’s had everything necessary to have achieved more than what he has, blokes a very good manager who’s brought other managers and styles of play up but he hasnt achieved anything as I say at a club that shouldnt be like the best ever have.
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You keep bleating on about that but there’s a reason…Pep isn’t going to be at a club where it’s a surprise they win the big one. That’s because of his consistent success. For him to do what you feel he needs to, to make him a top coach, he’d have to drop to a club that doesn’t warrant having his expertise. Why would he do that? You can’t just ignore what he’s achieving because he goes to absolute top tier clubs who are deserving of him.
 
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