He had easy runs at the last two major tournaments and bottled both.
He’s had an abundance of talent over the years but has failed to nurture and exploit it.
Should have been sacked along time ago
Southgate - time to admit this place was wrong?
- Thread starter chunkyshanhawk53
- Start date
He’s had an abundance of talent over the years but has failed to nurture and exploit it.
Should have been sacked along time ago
Sidewinder2
Striker
He’s just not a very good manager, never had been, never will be. Some of us have said it all along.
The Cabbage
Striker
He's done a good job overall. That's pretty clear. Things may well be getting a little stale now, though. It happens. Especially at international level there's definitely a time limit on it. A manager builds a strong group of trusted players, but then continues to trust them when their performances drop. It's tough to pick purely on form as so much of doing well in a tournament is in replicating that club atmosphere - and you can't do that with a constantly rotating cast of characters.
Looking specifically at what is going wrong for England right now, there's definitely a component of it that goes beyond Southgate himself. We're overloaded with attacking midfield/winger types but don't seem to have sufficient players of the same quality in other areas. I suspect a lack of truly dominant centre halves and a genuine controller at the base of the midfield is behind the move to a back three - which I don't really think is working all that well. However, that is down to the FAs overall development plan as much as anything. There's little doubt that player development in the country is a lagging thing, usually triggered by whatever is in fashion in world football (or our latest tournament defeat). TBF the players could well be on their way through and just being masked by Southgate's loyalty to the group (thinking about maybe the likes of Tomori, Guehi, Mitchell etc). It may be that we jsut need to freshen things up.
Ultimately, I don't expect GS gets to go beyond this world cup unless he gets to the semis. TBH if we did that I'd be pretty happy. There are probably a good 3-4 nations who are beyond us when it comes to talent. With the issues we have in defence and midfield, we can have as many great attacking midfielders as we like, but they won't be able to affect the game. There are probably only 1-2 spots up for grabs, with 6 or 7 players trying to get them. Even a coach that we were all sure about would not be able to nail a solution to that IMO.
Looking specifically at what is going wrong for England right now, there's definitely a component of it that goes beyond Southgate himself. We're overloaded with attacking midfield/winger types but don't seem to have sufficient players of the same quality in other areas. I suspect a lack of truly dominant centre halves and a genuine controller at the base of the midfield is behind the move to a back three - which I don't really think is working all that well. However, that is down to the FAs overall development plan as much as anything. There's little doubt that player development in the country is a lagging thing, usually triggered by whatever is in fashion in world football (or our latest tournament defeat). TBF the players could well be on their way through and just being masked by Southgate's loyalty to the group (thinking about maybe the likes of Tomori, Guehi, Mitchell etc). It may be that we jsut need to freshen things up.
Ultimately, I don't expect GS gets to go beyond this world cup unless he gets to the semis. TBH if we did that I'd be pretty happy. There are probably a good 3-4 nations who are beyond us when it comes to talent. With the issues we have in defence and midfield, we can have as many great attacking midfielders as we like, but they won't be able to affect the game. There are probably only 1-2 spots up for grabs, with 6 or 7 players trying to get them. Even a coach that we were all sure about would not be able to nail a solution to that IMO.
TravellingMackem
Winger
What’s this good job that he’s done? Got beat 3 times in the World Cup 2018, didn’t beat a half decent team, lost against the first decent team we played in the Euros, failed to get this brilliant squad playing any kind of attacking football whatsoever, just leeching off set pieces and the odd screamer.
Who are these 4 squads in the world that are miles above the England squad on talent? We’ve probably got the best squad in the world talent wise, if we had a competent manager to lead it we’d be seriously competing at tournaments, not turning up, beating on a few shitty teams then folding.
The bloke is an absolute fraud and should have gone after the dismal World Cup 2018 tbh. It’s amazing how a favourable draw can mask things in the eyes of the public
SeahamMackem
Winger
Sky Sports & the rest of sports journalism would be calling for his head if he wasn’t such a yes man.
JL1985
Striker
We definitely don’t have the best squad in the world. France do by a mile. Their 2nd squad would probably be better than our squad.
The Cabbage
Striker
There's no way that a squad with those defenders and those midfielders can be termed the best in the world. No point in having tonnes of talented players available if they all play in the same area of the pitch.
I agree but he plays 4 of them and the one who's been playing well as the right of a front 3 plays left wing back. All of the best players available to him play a high press game but he picks a few of them and we sit off with 5 at the back being as passive as we can be. I get we don't have great centre backs but I think we'd do better trying to make the most of our strengths than worrying about our weaknesses. It would definitely be far better to watch.
TravellingMackem
Winger
We’ve got better defenders and midfielders that Southgate doesn’t choose to pick. Who are these fabled teams with perfectly balanced squads?
Who’s the other teams with better squads?
The Cabbage
Striker
France are the most clear and obvious. However I’d say Brazil and Spain are both better than us too. Maybe Germany as well, as they always put out a good unit. Then you’ve got the likes of Belgium, who have a couple of talents beyond what we have and decent players elsewhere. Put it this way, losing to Belgium because de bruyne does something amazing in a tight game would hardly be a surprise nor a disgrace.
I don’t disagree that Southgate could be doing more. Defensively I wouldn’t be as cautious with the shape - albeit while there are other names that I’d prefer in there, we can hardly claim they’re ‘world-class’. However I certainly don’t see this squad as being classed as a failure if it doesn’t win a tournament. We're picking James Ward Prowse on merit.
Which midfield players doesn’t he pick? I can only think of Maddison, and I don’t think he’s superior to Bellingham, Foden or Mount.
Gaius Octavius
Full Back
A bold decision should have been made and Graham Potter appointed but we have missed the boat.
parsonjohn1985
Winger
The fact that you think england has the best squad in the world shows you are wholly unqualified to comment.
England has se excelleny attacking players. For some reason southgate plays a defensive style. It doesnt work together and i dont think hes currently doing a good job. But england absolutely dont have the best squad in world football.
Select coaches
Winger
When was the last time anyone would have enjoyed an England game as a neutral? They are always dour games.
John the Savage
Winger
Take us to final and lose a game that was there for the taking, like the Euros, and he should go imho. His poor management lost us that final.
The Cabbage
Striker
I wouldn't disagree tbh. However, there'd be an element of 'going out on your shield' about it. We'd be leaving solid PL players to keep the back door shut while stretched against some of the best attacking players in the world. Maybe our own attacking players hit it off, or maybe we just get played through and picked off at the back. I think back to articles through the last Euros, referencing analysis that Team England had done about how to be effective in tournaments. It was mostly about keeping things tight. Rarely does expansive football consistently win in those pressure knockout games. Again, wouldn't be my choice to watch - and means that failure leaves nowhere to hide - but I can see the merit behind the thinking (if I squint enough).
BucketBiff
Striker
I like Southgate and he’s done a decent job but It’s gone very stale, pretty quickly and I don’t think he has a clue on how to sort it. We create fuck all and teams have us completely sussed. It’s all low tempo stuff and it’s awful to watch. Doesn’t know his best team or formation. He doesn’t like TAA defensively which is fine, I agree with him on that. But when you set up with wing backs surely he’s worth a go considering we create nothing. I d like him to be brave and go 433. Rice, Bellingham and another (maybe mount) as the midfield 3. Kane and 2 from Sterling,Saka, Grealish, Foden, Sancho. There’s just no partnerships anywhere on the pitch at the minute. It’s all over the place.
TravellingMackem
Winger
Belgium are similar to us, Brazil likewise. The claim made was that there was 4 teams miles beyond us. We also have great players, like Kane, Foden, etc, that are equally capable of winning games on their own like KDB as you cited. France is the only team you could argue is miles ahead of us squad wise, but they have 101 problems within their squad.
The fact we aren’t performing on that level is down to Southgate, not the players we have available (or lack of quality players more precisely)
He frequently didn’t pick Foden last tournament. Grealish was also in the form of his life and couldn’t get on the pitch, despite having an impact every game. A midfield two of Phillips and Rice was shocking. Bellingham another that didn’t get into the team at all.
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