UFO's

[Kent_Mackem]

They were picked up on radar and other systems.

If there was any real evidence of non-human space flight technology it would be the biggest news story in the history of news. Everybody would know about it, thousands of scientists would be working on it, we would have a 24h news stream on it, all telescopes and cameras would be pointing to the skies to look for more.

Forgive me for ignoring a few lines on a football message board to the effect of "Some pilots saw XYZ, and it showed up on radar and other systems, it must be true because they said so". Ever stopped to wonder why they might be claiming this?

 

[Deleted member 14766]

Who mention aliens, not me?

I just did.

I'm responding to the implied (and sometimes explicit) premise on this thread and elsewhere that 'belief' in UFOs - or whatever three letter acronym that's in vogue - is a belief in something other than the acronym suggests (or states) and 'non-belief' is an indication of closed mindedness. Actually, I believe in the existence of UFOs. What I'm offering is the acceptance that there are reports that somebody, other than me, has seen something and didn't know what it was is ...simply that. It might be something more ...but the 'U' that comes before 'FO' (careful now) is the sum total of what my 'belief' is.

Many people seem to extrapolate sightings of something they don't understand or recognise as all sorts of things that they, the people that apparently saw something... or anybody else ...will ever be able to explain, prove, or identify. Cie La Vie. Life's a bitch and then you're probed.

 

[KathyBatesHammer]

If there was any real evidence of non-human space flight technology it would be the biggest news story in the history of news. Everybody would know about it, thousands of scientists would be working on it, we would have a 24h news stream on it, all telescopes and cameras would be pointing to the skies to look for more.

Forgive me for ignoring a few lines on a football message board to the effect of "Some pilots saw XYZ, and it showed up on radar and other systems, it must be true because they said so". Ever stopped to wonder why they might be claiming this?

I'm open minded on it, I'm not saying it is or isn't what others are claiming it to be - my hunch is its advanced human tech and its just being tested against current tech in use. (Which kind of makes sense to test it against your own stuff, rather than giving Russia or China the opportunity to observe it).

It's a fact that unidentified objects have been seen by pilots and tracked by both their jets systems and ground based systems. They have camera footage of them perfoming 'impossible' maneuvers. The US has admitted they are looking into it. The media has reported it.

To say it would be the biggest news story is a bit naive. There's plenty of reasons these sightings would be covered up; it's 'our' tech, we don't want 'enemies' to know we have it, they want 'enemies' to think there's something there that we don't understand, it's Aliens and they don't want the world to go into meltdown by admitting it.

There could be any one of a million reasons for it not being the biggest news stories.

Granted if a big fuck off flying saucer zoomed down and started hovering over New York then aye, biggest news ever. But no ones talking about that.

 

[Kent_Mackem]

I'm open minded on it, I'm not saying it is or isn't what others are claiming it to be - my hunch is its advanced human tech and its just being tested against current tech in use. (Which kind of makes sense to test it against your own stuff, rather than giving Russia or China the opportunity to observe it).

It's a fact that unidentified objects have been seen by pilots and tracked by both their jets systems and ground based systems. They have camera footage of them perfoming 'impossible' maneuvers. The US has admitted they are looking into it. The media has reported it.

To say it would be the biggest news story is a bit naive. There's plenty of reasons these sightings would be covered up; it's 'our' tech, we don't want 'enemies' to know we have it, they want 'enemies' to think there's something there that we don't understand, it's Aliens and they don't want the world to go into meltdown by admitting it.

There could be any one of a million reasons for it not being the biggest news stories.

Granted if a big fuck off flying saucer zoomed down and started hovering over New York then aye, biggest news ever. But no ones talking about that.

I meant it would be the biggest story if there was any evidence at all of intelligent life from other planets.

I just did.

I'm responding to the implied (and sometimes explicit) premise on this thread and elsewhere that 'belief' in UFOs - or whatever three letter acronym that's in vogue - is a belief in something other than the acronym suggests (or states) and 'non-belief' is an indication of closed mindedness. Actually, I believe in the existence of UFOs. What I'm offering is the acceptance that there are reports that somebody, other than me, has seen something and didn't know what it was is ...simply that. It might be something more ...but the 'U' that comes before 'FO' (careful now) is the sum total of what my 'belief' is.

Many people seem to extrapolate sightings of something they don't understand or recognise as all sorts of things that they, the people that apparently saw something... or anybody else ...will ever be able to explain, prove, or identify. Cie La Vie. Life's a bitch and then you're probed.

Loads of people, not just on here, are prone to making that magical leap from "I don't know...." to aliens (or God).

That's the bit I take issue with.

 

[KathyBatesHammer]

I meant it would be the biggest story if there was any evidence at all of intelligent life from other planets.

Ffs put a lot of though into that reply anarl!

Forget intelligent life for the minute, one of the moons of Jupiter or Saturn is a big candidate for life. Something to do with the plate tectonics being affected by gravity, warming it up underground. We know there is huge lakes of methane under there as when it gets too hot/pressurised they erupt on the surface. Scientists say that a mile or two underground the conditions could be just right for life.

We will probably know for sure within the next 100 hundred years.

If we did find it there, that would change everything. 2 possibilities for life and it exists in both of them.

 

[skullmeister]

As humans we are a bit closed to new ideas at times and that we are special.

It was only 400 years ago that people were thrown into jail/house arrest for saying that the earth wasn't the centre of the universe. That was subsequently found to be not true of course and now exoplanet discoveries prove that it's pretty common for a planet to exist elsewhere, not just around our sun.

Life will be everywhere, we've went from dinosaurs to humans during the history of earth so why with the same conditions elsewhere would similar not happen. In time science again will prove that we aren't really that special again.

 

[The King of Um]

That's not true. People don't need to be 'lying' to be wrong.

It's is vastly more likely that people who (think they) have 'seen' UFOs are mistaken in what they think they saw, than the proposition 'aliens have just flown their head' is true. That proposition is ubsurdly unlikely.

I don't think (most) people are lying, but when people say "I know what I saw" they're ignoring the huge body of evidence that actually people aren't good at knowing what they saw, that witness evidence to plain ordinary events in broad daylight can be really unreliable or even change depending on how they're asked about it, that memory isn't as accurate as we like to think it is and that we may even embellish it without knowing, that even trained people can be poor at identifying height, size, distance at night or in poor visibility...we're not that brilliant at being reliable observers.

 

[MunkyHeed]

I don't think (most) people are lying, but when people say "I know what I saw" they're ignoring the huge body of evidence that actually people aren't good at knowing what they saw, that witness evidence to plain ordinary events in broad daylight can be really unreliable or even change depending on how they're asked about it, that memory isn't as accurate as we like to think it is and that we may even embellish it without knowing, that even trained people can be poor at identifying height, size, distance at night or in poor visibility...we're not that brilliant at being reliable observers.

@tunstall birdman has seen weird lights... he may be in a better position to comment, but I bet most ppl who see something actually say 'I DONT know what I saw', leading to the belief that is wasn't natural or man-made. You can see why the logical conclusion (rightly or wrongly) could then lead to 'aliens'?
For this topic, you have to keep an open mind for it to be healthy and reasoned if you're only going on other people's evidence. Once you try pushing your beliefs onto others, just because that's your opinion, it gets messy. No better than religious street-preachers or fanatical zealots.

 

[Ilios]

So multiple US navy pilots tracking UAPs which they video but all imagined it, righto.

 

[Kent_Mackem]

Ffs put a lot of though into that reply anarl!

Forget intelligent life for the minute, one of the moons of Jupiter or Saturn is a big candidate for life. Something to do with the plate tectonics being affected by gravity, warming it up underground. We know there is huge lakes of methane under there as when it gets too hot/pressurised they erupt on the surface. Scientists say that a mile or two underground the conditions could be just right for life.

We will probably know for sure within the next 100 hundred years.

If we did find it there, that would change everything. 2 possibilities for life and it exists in both of them.

No, let’s not forget about intelligent life. That’s the whole point. Slime doesn’t fly space snips.

 

[KathyBatesHammer]

No, let’s not forget about intelligent life. That’s the whole point. Slime doesn’t fly space snips.

Erm, OK.

 

[Ilios]

As humans we are a bit closed to new ideas at times and that we are special.

It was only 400 years ago that people were thrown into jail/house arrest for saying that the earth wasn't the centre of the universe. That was subsequently found to be not true of course and now exoplanet discoveries prove that it's pretty common for a planet to exist elsewhere, not just around our sun.

Life will be everywhere, we've went from dinosaurs to humans during the history of earth so why with the same conditions elsewhere would similar not happen. In time science again will prove that we aren't really that special again.

I'm open to accepting propositions when sufficient evidence is presented. The proposition 'intelligent, alien life has visited earth' is a proposition that has not been demonstrated.

 

[Kent_Mackem]

Erm, OK.

You appear to be struggling with this but I'm not sure which bit you aren't getting.

If there was even the slightest hint of detecting intelligent life outside of Earth it would be all over the news. There hasn't been to date but we'd well and truly know about it if that situation changes.

Of course people are going to wonder what they've seen if their brain doesn't provide a satisfactory explanation. I pointed out some of the reasons earlier why it is a ludicrous jump to include alien life as a possible explanation.

@tunstall birdman has seen weird lights... he may be in a better position to comment, but I bet most ppl who see something actually say 'I DONT know what I saw', leading to the belief that is wasn't natural or man-made. You can see why the logical conclusion (rightly or wrongly) could then lead to 'aliens'?
For this topic, you have to keep an open mind for it to be healthy and reasoned if you're only going on other people's evidence. Once you try pushing your beliefs onto others, just because that's your opinion, it gets messy. No better than religious street-preachers or fanatical zealots.

Who is pushing beliefs onto others? Open minds are a good thing. Scientists keep open minds. Religious street preachers do not.

It's also useful in life to have an understanding of how likely things are. Most explanations are simple and tend to be the most probable solution. When trying to explain lights in the sky it's always more productive to start at the "more likely" end of the list of possibilities as that is where the answer will probably be. The other end of the list, where we find aliens, Terry Pratchett and gods, tends not to have much evidence to back it up although they undoubtedly make great stories and are therefore appealing to some people.

 

[Ilios]

You appear to be struggling with this but I'm not sure which bit you aren't getting.

If there was even the slightest hint of detecting intelligent life outside of Earth it would be all over the news. There hasn't been to date but we'd well and truly know about it if that situation changes.

Of course people are going to wonder what they've seen if their brain doesn't provide a satisfactory explanation. I pointed out some of the reasons earlier why it is a ludicrous jump to include alien life as a possible explanation.

Who is pushing beliefs onto others? Open minds are a good thing. Scientists keep open minds. Religious street preachers do not.

It's also useful in life to have an understanding of how likely things are. Most explanations are simple and tend to be the most probable solution. When trying to explain lights in the sky it's always more productive to start at the "more likely" end of the list of possibilities as that is where the answer will probably be. The other end of the list, where we find aliens, Terry Pratchett and gods, tends not to have much evidence to back it up although they undoubtedly make great stories and are therefore appealing to some people.

The discovery of the Higgs Boson in 2012 was headline news in just about every TV news, every newspaper, and almost every country in the world. It was an absolutely colossal news juggernaut of a story, for the discovery of a particle that the overwhelming majority of all people who had ever lived anyway, had no idea was even something to be looked for.

If there was serious empirical evidence of intelligent life visiting earth - a far, far bigger discovery...I think we'd be aware of it, and I don't think the summation of the evidence would be anecdotes on Tucker f#cking Carlson and Joe Rogan

 

[Kent_Mackem]

I don't think the summation of the evidence would be anecdotes on Tucker f#cking Carlson and Joe Rogan

It's enough for some people though.....

 

[MunkyHeed]

If there was even the slightest hint of detecting intelligent life outside of Earth it would be all over the news.

Depends who's doing the detecting & has access to the data, no?

 

[Ilios]

Depends who's doing the detecting & has access to the data, no?

How do you know that there has been any significant 'data' to 'detect', if you don't have access? And who are the the mysterious 'they' holding the planet to ransom over access?

 

[MunkyHeed]

I don't think the summation of the evidence would be anecdotes on Tucker f#cking Carlson and Joe Rogan

Fuck Carlson and Rogan.
How about 'anecdotes' from the 3rd in command at the Pentagon? Ex-directors of US government departments that ran programs to study UAP? One of the most revered scientists on the planet? The Chief of NASA? The Chief of the CIA?

How do you know that there has been any significant 'data' to 'detect', if you don't have access? And who are the the mysterious 'they' holding the planet to ransom over access?

Cos the ppl in my last post all said there is.

As for who 'they' are? Best guess is secret black-project departments deep in the US govt & private contractors that don't need to report everything publicly...Skunkworks, Bigelow and others.

Who is pushing beliefs onto others?

A general comment not aimed at anyone particular on how those of us without proof or strong evidence can state as 'fact' that we are/are not alone (or God does/doesn't exist, as per my zealot remark).

 

[Ilios]

Fuck Carlson and Rogan.
How about 'anecdotes' from the 3rd in command at the Pentagon? Ex-directors of US government departments that ran programs to study UAP? One of the most revered scientists on the planet? The Chief of NASA? The Chief of the CIA?

Cos the ppl in my last post all said there is.

As for who 'they' are? Best guess is secret black-project departments deep in the US govt & private contractors that don't need to report everything publicly...Skunkworks, Bigelow and others.

A general comment not aimed at anyone particular on how those of us without proof or strong evidence can state as 'fact' that we are/are not alone (or God does/doesn't exist, as per my zealot remark).

Yeah, but I don't care about anecdotes. 'It's true because person X said so', is a fallacy. Anecdotes are insufficient as evidence. It's also ridiculous on its face, given where we are in travel time from anywhere that could plausibly produce the technology and life span to reach us.

 

[Chalks]

I always find it interesting and even that video of Carlson had it in there…

They mention god and aliens may just be another of gods children.

People believe in god with zero proof or scientific evidence but they then say nah no chance of aliens etc.

I’m the other , basic math and chnace Wouod dictate somehere there is another intelligent species , here or no I’ve No idea.

God?? No chance, more likely god is just an interpretation of alien