The Safety of Fans in the North Stand

[Chewit]

I can say for sure the dick heads wouldnt, those of which who come for the football or with their family would always back away unless placed in a dangerous situation

Like I said it’s embarrassing

It’s more than embarrassing, it’s criminal. It’s not some embarrassing chant ...call it out for what it is .

 

[Roker Scoreboard]

Coventry being the main offenders, it’s unlikely to be as much as a problem for the majority of games, so probably a bit pointless now, but really should have been done pre-season.

We've had isolated incidents in the past from a few teams. Boro at our place for definite as coins landed in the lower tier and Man United previously have caused problems. We'll have larger away followings at the SOL this season and after yesterday they simply can't allow the situation to remain as it is.
Before the next home match if they are serious about sorting it out then a net of some kind needs to be installed in front of that area

 

[Superkenwynejones]

Absolutely no idea why anyone thinks it’s a good idea to have them up there. Far too easy for cowards to chuck things down. It’ll be their equivalent to half time pint chuckers that do it.

Was better when they were in the south stand anyway.

Atmosphere was always better when they were in the south stand IMO.

Plus the stadium was designed to have the away fans there with Cells & Police control room both in that stand.

Whoever thought of sticking them up there must have been pissed

 

[PeteFTM]

We've had isolated incidents in the past from a few teams. Boro at our place for definite as coins landed in the lower tier and Man United previously have caused problems. We'll have larger away followings at the SOL this season and after yesterday they simply can't allow the situation to remain as it is.
Before the next home match if they are serious about sorting it out then a net of some kind needs to be installed in front of that area

You’re completely right, hopefully someone will take it on and not just leave the issue like it has been for the last few years

 

[tunstallhill]

The clubs arguements for not moving the away fans into a corner for years were that the ground was built with the cells downstairs from the south stand. So they were moved upstairs into the North Stand. Stick em in the NE corner, that’ll generate some atmosphere in the North Stand and allow the South Stand to become a proper family-disabled end.

Give those who have to move a good sized club shop voucher as compo and get the ticket office to go out of their way to help them relocate.

easy to say on a message board 'just move them' but it will only create number of other problems that fans later on will say 'whos idea was this? it was obvious that *enter new problem* was going to happen''

everyone says 'move them' yet on the endless amounts of threads on the subject, not one single poster has been able to offer a decent option with the practicalities of it actually addressed.

for a start, say you put them in the north east corner - how big of an area do we blank out for season ticket holders? they aren't going to allow the away end in front of the north upper concourse or the black cats bar, so the only way to extend the away section would be round to the east stand. some of the best seats in the house, and right in the middle of the TV cameras. so, say we make a block of 2000 seats, thats pretty much the entire NE corner taken up, plus a bit of the east stand. now, many clubs only bring 500 up, so theres 1500 in the lower bowl empty for some games, but other clubs bring 3000, so do we blank out another 1000 seats in the adjacent blocks in the east stand for if-and-when clubs want to bring bigger amounts of away fans? and what happens for cup games etc.. where away teams want to bring 4000, 5000 away fans - it happens relatively regularly, lets say once per season... what do we do then? move another 2000 ST holders from the east stand and give half of the east stand? you also have the issue then of the away turnstiles being in the most prominent area outside of the stadium, right infront of our ticket office and main car park and where they sometimes have the kids fan zones etc.. your essentially forcing the entire home support to walk past the away fans. you also have the away fans in a very prominent and influential part of the ground to effect the game.

none of these ^^ problems currently occur. so yes, there is a problem with the throwing of things down from above, not denying it, but you don't solve one problem by creating another handful of problems. its idiotic.

put a net up, its a one off cost, and the problem is instantly solved, with zero inconvenience to our actual fans

same question goes out to anyone else who is desperate to move the away end, where would you move them to? and how would you deal with the fluctuation in allocation sizes from 500 to 5000? originally, the entire south stand was out of bounds for season tickets, as the whole stand was used for the away fans. and when they brought small allocations, the adjacent blocks were open to match day sales for home fans. we'd need a set up in the lower bowl exactly like this. so where do they go?

currently, we don't have this problem as the NW upper corner is used as the buffer area as its never on sale to home fans anyway

 

[Chewit]

I emailed him the last time we had stuff thrown down by the Coventry fans, he called me and had a chat on thr phoenix and basically said they can't move the fans as figures showed the issues had reduced by 60% since they were moved and when I asked about getting a net put up to catch things he said they won't put a net up as it still won't catch all the objects and things like coins could still get through. When I said it would stop the bottles and bigger stuff its a start he just said its not something they would be doing.

Today shows its really something they SHOULD be doing.

We ended up moving away from the NS but it should never have been us that had to move.

In terms of risk assessment and mitigation of identified risk, i can’t see how the clubs lack of action do anything other than leave the club wide open to not being exposed at least in terms of insurance and worst case potentially corporate manslaughter.
Just say that bottle killed someone yesterday that’s Kyril and his directors in jail and millions of pounds in pay outs.
They have to do something now to removve the risk.
Throwing percentages at you is corporate bollocks. Unless those other incidents are all life threatening they should not be part of same decision making process

 

[tunstallhill]

Atmosphere was always better when they were in the south stand IMO.

Plus the stadium was designed to have the away fans there with Cells & Police control room both in that stand.

Whoever thought of sticking them up there must have been pissed

well, that is absolute bollocks and a myth that gets repeated over and over till it becomes true. it wasn't the case back then and it never will be the case

we had the SWC, about 2000 sunderland fans maximum making any noise, and regularly away fans of over 3000 in numbers outsinging the entire SOL. people just think that 'any chanting' equals atmosphere. not really the case when the chanting is coming from leeds fans or man united fans, completely outsinging 40,000 sunderland fans. that is what actaully happened regularly . i had a ST in the swc the entire time.

its 100x better now

 

[Chewit]

What should have happened is that the game gets paused and all away fans are told to leave the stadium......!!!!! Once they are all our the game is then resumed.....

Banned for the next 5 away games and bennned for 3 years from our stadium...

Quite simple really.

However don't run on the pitch or will get exterminated. You can't make this shit up man

I thought let’s go back to school and warn the fans if you throw projectiles none of you are being let out until those responsible own up or are identified on CCTV That will soon make decent fans root them out

 

[Wearside Wanderer II]

See the Coventry dickheads who were on this board like fly’s around shyte last week have gone missing.

Odious wankers.

 

[seaham ftm]

Think yesterday has brought it to a head and something needs to be done before the next home match. That probably means some kind of netting or perspex at the front of the stand.
Assume it's too late to move them this season but from next season I assume they'll look to move them back into the South Stand.

No they won’t they’re there to stay

The club aren’t going to move 10k season ticket holders.

easy to say on a message board 'just move them' but it will only create number of other problems that fans later on will say 'whos idea was this? it was obvious that *enter new problem* was going to happen''

everyone says 'move them' yet on the endless amounts of threads on the subject, not one single poster has been able to offer a decent option with the practicalities of it actually addressed.

for a start, say you put them in the north east corner - how big of an area do we blank out for season ticket holders? they aren't going to allow the away end in front of the north upper concourse or the black cats bar, so the only way to extend the away section would be round to the east stand. some of the best seats in the house, and right in the middle of the TV cameras. so, say we make a block of 2000 seats, thats pretty much the entire NE corner taken up, plus a bit of the east stand. now, many clubs only bring 500 up, so theres 1500 in the lower bowl empty for some games, but other clubs bring 3000, so do we blank out another 1000 seats in the adjacent blocks in the east stand for if-and-when clubs want to bring bigger amounts of away fans? and what happens for cup games etc.. where away teams want to bring 4000, 5000 away fans - it happens relatively regularly, lets say once per season... what do we do then? move another 2000 ST holders from the east stand and give half of the east stand? you also have the issue then of the away turnstiles being in the most prominent area outside of the stadium, right infront of our ticket office and main car park and where they sometimes have the kids fan zones etc.. your essentially forcing the entire home support to walk past the away fans. you also have the away fans in a very prominent and influential part of the ground to effect the game.

none of these ^^ problems currently occur. so yes, there is a problem with the throwing of things down from above, not denying it, but you don't solve one problem by creating another handful of problems. its idiotic.

put a net up, its a one off cost, and the problem is instantly solved, with zero inconvenience to our actual fans

same question goes out to anyone else who is desperate to move the away end, where would you move them to? and how would you deal with the fluctuation in allocation sizes from 500 to 5000? originally, the entire south stand was out of bounds for season tickets, as the whole stand was used for the away fans. and when they brought small allocations, the adjacent blocks were open to match day sales for home fans. we'd need a set up in the lower bowl exactly like this. so where do they go?

currently, we don't have this problem as the NW upper corner is used as the buffer area as its never on sale to home fans anyway

This. The only place that they could be moved is to the south stand and that isn’t going to happen.

 

[Thatheaderman]

Club should have moved them and done needed works pre season but Elton was on.

It will happen regular this season

 

[tunstallhill]

This. The only place that they could be moved is to the south stand and that isn’t going to happen.

exactly. its very symbolic of our society. everyone is DEMANDING they get moved, the club may eventually bow to the pressure just so they can be seen to be 'listening' , but all it does is create another shitstorm somewhere else in the ground

every single person who is demanding to move the away fans hasn't thought it through for more than 2 seconds. as no one has come up with a solution even remotely realistic. but they'll keep stamping their feet.

 

[Chewit]

The stand manager and the “ground safety manager”. Best bet is to email Steve Neil though - PM me and I’ll give you his email when I get home if you don’t have it, can’t get logged onto my emails in the pub

These club executives should be made to sit in the north stand with their their kids when Coventry come next. Let them feel the anxiety and anger and see if it changes attitudes. They are treating fans as numbers

 

[nottinghammackem]

They either need to find the individual and give them a hefty ban, or not allow them back at the SOL next season if they stay up

 

[samaistonsrightfoot]

well, that is absolute bollocks and a myth that gets repeated over and over till it becomes true. it wasn't the case back then and it never will be the case

we had the SWC, about 2000 sunderland fans maximum making any noise, and regularly away fans of over 3000 in numbers outsinging the entire SOL. people just think that 'any chanting' equals atmosphere. not really the case when the chanting is coming from leeds fans or man united fans, completely outsinging 40,000 sunderland fans. that is what actaully happened regularly . i had a ST in the swc the entire time.

its 100x better now

Atmosphere was better before but that was somewhat mitigated by the fact we were either good (Phillip era etc) or not as shite as we have been the last 10 or so and let everyone borderline manic depresives. I used to sit in SW corner when away fans were in south and atmosphere there used to be good with back and forth.

Mind, the sound in the sol travels shite. I sit in north and you can't really hear the south stand much tbh (even when away fans aren't singing) but always comes across loud on recordings/tv etc, and what you do hear is a delay do it's almost impossible to join in with any chants as just ends up a cacophony of offbeat noise. Think that's partly why songs don't catch on so much.

Makes more sense to have as many home fans together as possible imo if you are wanting more noise/singing etc.

 

[Chewit]

easy to say on a message board 'just move them' but it will only create number of other problems that fans later on will say 'whos idea was this? it was obvious that *enter new problem* was going to happen''

everyone says 'move them' yet on the endless amounts of threads on the subject, not one single poster has been able to offer a decent option with the practicalities of it actually addressed.

for a start, say you put them in the north east corner - how big of an area do we blank out for season ticket holders? they aren't going to allow the away end in front of the north upper concourse or the black cats bar, so the only way to extend the away section would be round to the east stand. some of the best seats in the house, and right in the middle of the TV cameras. so, say we make a block of 2000 seats, thats pretty much the entire NE corner taken up, plus a bit of the east stand. now, many clubs only bring 500 up, so theres 1500 in the lower bowl empty for some games, but other clubs bring 3000, so do we blank out another 1000 seats in the adjacent blocks in the east stand for if-and-when clubs want to bring bigger amounts of away fans? and what happens for cup games etc.. where away teams want to bring 4000, 5000 away fans - it happens relatively regularly, lets say once per season... what do we do then? move another 2000 ST holders from the east stand and give half of the east stand? you also have the issue then of the away turnstiles being in the most prominent area outside of the stadium, right infront of our ticket office and main car park and where they sometimes have the kids fan zones etc.. your essentially forcing the entire home support to walk past the away fans. you also have the away fans in a very prominent and influential part of the ground to effect the game.

none of these ^^ problems currently occur. so yes, there is a problem with the throwing of things down from above, not denying it, but you don't solve one problem by creating another handful of problems. its idiotic.

put a net up, its a one off cost, and the problem is instantly solved, with zero inconvenience to our actual fans

same question goes out to anyone else who is desperate to move the away end, where would you move them to? and how would you deal with the fluctuation in allocation sizes from 500 to 5000? originally, the entire south stand was out of bounds for season tickets, as the whole stand was used for the away fans. and when they brought small allocations, the adjacent blocks were open to match day sales for home fans. we'd need a set up in the lower bowl exactly like this. so where do they go?

currently, we don't have this problem as the NW upper corner is used as the buffer area as its never on sale to home fans anyway

All the issues you point out don’t trump the risk of death from a missile. It’s as simple as that. The club has to remove the risk or at least mitigate it e.g. put up netting

 

[tunstallhill]

They either need to find the individual and give them a hefty ban, or not allow them back at the SOL next season if they stay up

yep, one small step they could take is only giving coventry 500 tickets next time, and make a very public statement saying that due to glass bottles being thrown down, and since they were unable to find the perpetrator, they didn't hand themselves in and the coventry fans refuse to identify him, thats all the tickets they are getting. 500. split into 10 blocks of 50. with a bunch of stewards and police on every block. treat them like animals if they are going to act like it, until the fans self police it and grass the lad up

also - invest in more cctv, more security, more searches on the way in, more stewards, a giant net and big signs all over the concourse saying anyone who throws something down WILL be identified due to our state of the art surveilance system and will be taken to court for attempted murder once they are arrested.

Atmosphere was better before but that was somewhat mitigated by the fact we were either good (Phillip era etc) or not as shite as we have been the last 10 or so and let everyone borderline manic depresives. I used to sit in SW corner when away fans were in south and atmosphere there used to be good with back and forth.

Mind, the sound in the sol travels shite. I sit in north and you can't really hear the south stand much tbh (even when away fans aren't singing) but always comes across loud on recordings/tv etc, and what you do hear is a delay do it's almost impossible to join in with any chants as just ends up a cacophony of offbeat noise. Think that's partly why songs don't catch on so much.

Makes more sense to have as many home fans together as possible imo if you are wanting more noise/singing etc.

when sunderland are playing well = atmosphere is good

when sunderland are playing shite = atmosphere is poor.

its that simple. got fuck all to do with singing 'whered you park your mini bus' to 300 burton fans on a tuesday night during a dour 0-0. thats not atmosphere.

we need the entire lower bowl to be sunderland fans, thats how you create an atmosphere

 

[Father Jack Hackett]

yep, one small step they could take is only giving coventry 500 tickets next time, and make a very public statement saying that due to glass bottles being thrown down, and since they were unable to find the perpetrator, they didn't hand themselves in and the coventry fans refuse to identify him, thats all the tickets they are getting. 500. split into 10 blocks of 50. with a bunch of stewards and police on every block. treat them like animals if they are going to act like it, until the fans self police it and grass the lad up

also - invest in more cctv, more security, more searches on the way in, more stewards, a giant net and big signs all over the concourse saying anyone who throws something down WILL be identified due to our state of the art surveilance system and will be taken to court for attempted murder once they are arrested.

O wouldn't give them a single one until, as you say, they self-police of which the lack-of is as cowardly as the bottle-throwing.

 

[E Tenebris Lux]

Another game, more missiles thrown down on to the Sunderland fans in the North Stand.

Coventry fans once again showing themselves up after acting all innocent in the build up to the game.

We need action to prevent this from happening again.

Coventry should get zero allocation when they next visit. It’s every time with them.

Where were the Stewards and Police. They are far too soft and lenient with away fans.Surely they should have anticipated this anti social and dangerous behaviour. Were arrests made ?

 

[Roker Scoreboard]

No they won’t they’re there to stay

The club aren’t going to move 10k season ticket holders.

This. The only place that they could be moved is to the south stand and that isn’t going to happen.

It wouldnt be 10k season card holders as the original away section only went half way across.