Booing prior to the kick off.

[FulwellViaLeeds]

See that's where it gets tricky mate.

Let's just say that I'm a Russian born Sunderland local who watches 'Putin TV' and sincerely believes the rhetoric that Ukraine is the aggressor and that Russian people are being persecuted. So as a gesture of solidarity I rock up at the SOL, put up a huge Russian flag and sing pro-Putin songs.

Going by your logic everyone should respect my feelings and allow me to carry on. In reality there'd be hell on, flag would be taken down, possible ejection from the ground and a dozen threads on here within hours.


It's not an anti-racist gesture, it's against all kinds of injustice and intolerance according to the EFL. As they don't say what that includes it's possible there are aspects I don't agree with. I don't want trans-men playing women's football teams for example.


On that we have to disagree. There was an absolute explosion of BLM exposure on sports channels, news channels and the media in general. The 6pm and 10pm news had it on every night at one point.

The distancing, by the EFL etc, existed but was barely noticeable.

I did say in my post about supporting a cause that we should really all be behind. I would expect every reasonable to say they're against discrimination and racism. It's very basic stuff and not controversial at all. It's slightly different when you're actively going out of your way to antagonise people and take a very controversial viewpoint. I'd argue that you would find it difficult to be sincerely believe any of what you said.

Are you trying to argue that the knee is too broadly focused on "all kinds of discrimination" or that it's still too closely tied to BLM? Surely it must be one or the other? If someone's trying to argue that they boo the knee because it might also secretly stand against other forms of discrimination that have never been mentioned in the discussion, that's quite an odd argument.

With BLM, the movement was everywhere, but the organisation wasn't. Who even are BLM UK? I can't name one person directly involved.

 

[Skylon]

See that's where it gets tricky mate.

Let's just say that I'm a Russian born Sunderland local who watches 'Putin TV' and sincerely believes the rhetoric that Ukraine is the aggressor and that Russian people are being persecuted. So as a gesture of solidarity I rock up at the SOL, put up a huge Russian flag and sing pro-Putin songs.

Going by your logic everyone should respect my feelings and allow me to carry on. In reality there'd be hell on, flag would be taken down, possible ejection from the ground and a dozen threads on here within hours.


It's not an anti-racist gesture, it's against all kinds of injustice and intolerance according to the EFL. As they don't say what that includes it's possible there are aspects I don't agree with. I don't want trans-men playing women's football teams for example.


On that we have to disagree. There was an absolute explosion of BLM exposure on sports channels, news channels and the media in general. The 6pm and 10pm news had it on every night at one point.

The distancing, by the EFL etc, existed but was barely noticeable.

The clip of this man.The efl spokesperson said 'the knee gesture is a simple act of protest,against racism and inequality'.Telling BEAR faced lies now,to fit your self confessed racist agenda.

I did say in my post about supporting a cause that we should really all be behind. I would expect every reasonable to say they're against discrimination and racism. It's very basic stuff and not controversial at all. It's slightly different when you're actively going out of your way to antagonise people and take a very controversial viewpoint. I'd argue that you would find it difficult to be sincerely believe any of what you said.

Are you trying to argue that the knee is too broadly focused on "all kinds of discrimination" or that it's still too closely tied to BLM? Surely it must be one or the other? If someone's trying to argue that they boo the knee because it might also secretly stand against other forms of discrimination that have never been mentioned in the discussion, that's quite an odd argument.

With BLM, the movement was everywhere, but the organisation wasn't. Who even are BLM UK? I can't name one person directly involved.

You will not find many people,that think the knee gesture,is nowt to do with racism.Its a funny stance to take like.Makes you wonder why the self confessed racist ,bears heed would think this,doesn't it?

 

[Morse]

Because the George Floyd murder was a horrible thing.Disgusting

I find it disturbing that Floyd is being held up as some sort of poster child martyr for highlighting the issue of racism.
A police officer has no business killing a suspect, but he was found guilty and jailed. It’s a foreign country and none of our business. If the suspect had been a Chinese or Phillipino ethnic minority career criminal, would it have even made international news?

The narrative appears to be ‘he was black, so cut him some slack for being a career criminal who robbed a pregnant woman at gunpoint’. That is deeply condescending, patronising and insulting to black Americans, imo. Even racist. Many black Americans, shock horror, work hard for a living and never set foot in a police station.

I don’t like the projection of U.S. problems onto the U.K. Our racism situation is nothing like theirs whatsoever, nor is our society. I’d rather we focused on our own race relations and left them to focus on the absolute basket case of racial divide they have over there.

 

[sb022x1030]

I find it disturbing that Floyd is being held up as some sort of poster child martyr for highlighting the issue of racism.
A police officer has no business killing a suspect, but he was found guilty and jailed. It’s a foreign country and none of our business. If the suspect had been a Chinese or Phillipino ethnic minority career criminal, would it have even made international news?

The narrative appears to be ‘he was black, so cut him some slack for being a career criminal who robbed a pregnant woman at gunpoint’. That is deeply condescending, patronising and insulting to black Americans, imo. Even racist. Many black Americans, shock horror, work hard for a living and never set foot in a police station.

I don’t like the projection of U.S. problems onto the U.K. Our racism situation is nothing like theirs whatsoever, nor is our society. I’d rather we focused on our own race relations and left them to focus on the absolute basket case of racial divide they have over there.

He wasn't found guilty for the crime that he was murdered for. He bought cigarettes with an alleged counterfeit 20$ note, and was murdered for it without trial or conviction. He served his time for his previous convictions and they have nothing to do with why he was murdered, and trying to use his past to justify his death is horrific.

I was in France last week and tried to pay for a beer with a 50 euro note, the bar tender wouldn't take it because he thought it could be fake. I paid on card and when I inspected the note back at my hotel I realised it was just a really old (2002) 50€ note. Its not a crime that is punishable by death. If I was George Floyd and bought cigarettes with a fake 20 $ I doubt i would have been murdered

 

[ClarenceBoddicker]

I find it disturbing that Floyd is being held up as some sort of poster child martyr for highlighting the issue of racism.
A police officer has no business killing a suspect, but he was found guilty and jailed. It’s a foreign country and none of our business. If the suspect had been a Chinese or Phillipino ethnic minority career criminal, would it have even made international news?

The narrative appears to be ‘he was black, so cut him some slack for being a career criminal who robbed a pregnant woman at gunpoint’. That is deeply condescending, patronising and insulting to black Americans, imo. Even racist. Many black Americans, shock horror, work hard for a living and never set foot in a police station.

I don’t like the projection of U.S. problems onto the U.K. Our racism situation is nothing like theirs whatsoever, nor is our society. I’d rather we focused on our own race relations and left them to focus on the absolute basket case of racial divide they have over there.

There's no evidence to suggest Aracely Henriquez was pregnant at the time. You need to stop reading Facebook memes and The Daily Mail.

You must be logged on to see external links

When an officer of the law executes someone on the street in the most powerful nation in the world it's going to (justifiably imo) cause shockwaves. It was a horrific crime and what George Floyd served his time for does not justify it in any way.

 

[Bear Heed]

I did say in my post about supporting a cause that we should really all be behind.

Yes I'm with you there mate but you also said this below*.

*Accepting that symbols and gestures mean different things to different people and that respecting people's right to stand up for a cause that we all should really be behind.

It's clear that, by that criteria, we can't dismiss the Russian lad's right to stand up for a cause he believes in. There will be those who agree with him and those who disagree justc as there are with BLM or the kneeling campaign or whatever.

I would expect every reasonable to say they're against discrimination and racism. It's very basic stuff and not controversial at all. It's slightly different when you're actively going out of your way to antagonise people and take a very controversial viewpoint.

This is my point though. The Russian lad may not be 'actively going out of his way to antagonise people and take a very controversial viewpoint'. He may be totally sincere and desperate to get his message across. If you watch the news you'll see that the Russian people are being told that Ukraine is a Nazi country that's killing Russians and threatening their country. We're being told the opposite and we have to believe we're being told the truth, I do but he's entitled to his opinion.

I'd argue that you would find it difficult to be sincerely believe any of what you said.

Of course I don't believe it, I was just giving an example of how, as you said, different people have different points of view and different values.

Are you trying to argue that the knee is too broadly focused on "all kinds of discrimination" or that it's still too closely tied to BLM?

I'm sure the message is too vague and all inclusive to the point where it's become a general 'be decent with everyone' which I'm sure most people don't need to be told. I suspect some people don't appreciate being told this by football players who don't always live up to that message themselves.

Surely it must be one or the other? If someone's trying to argue that they boo the knee because it might also secretly stand against other forms of discrimination that have never been mentioned in the discussion, that's quite an odd argument.

I don't boo, would never boo and don't know anyone who does, so that's just guesswork on my part. If, however, the campaign is against all forms of discrimination then they don't all need to be mentioned or listed.

With BLM, the movement was everywhere, but the organisation wasn't. Who even are BLM UK? I can't name one person directly involved.

I don't have a clue tbh. Many people were marching under a BLM banner without being in any organisation, understanding what BLM UK was or knowing who was involved. This is part of the problem, BLM means different things to different people and not everyone understands the distinctions.

 

[Skylon]

I find it disturbing that Floyd is being held up as some sort of poster child martyr for highlighting the issue of racism.
A police officer has no business killing a suspect, but he was found guilty and jailed. It’s a foreign country and none of our business. If the suspect had been a Chinese or Phillipino ethnic minority career criminal, would it have even made international news?

The narrative appears to be ‘he was black, so cut him some slack for being a career criminal who robbed a pregnant woman at gunpoint’. That is deeply condescending, patronising and insulting to black Americans, imo. Even racist. Many black Americans, shock horror, work hard for a living and never set foot in a police station.

I don’t like the projection of U.S. problems onto the U.K. Our racism situation is nothing like theirs whatsoever, nor is our society. I’d rather we focused on our own race relations and left them to focus on the absolute basket case of racial divide they have over there.

It was disgusting what happened to George Floyd.Getting the life squeezed out of him whilst shouting for his ma.It makes my stomach churn.I don't care what he had done.If only he couldve been found guilty and jailed,eh?Whether you like it or not,America is the most influential country in the world.And what happened there,obviously resonated with people,not just here,but around the world.Otherwise people wouldn't have protested around the world.Racism is still a global problem.Do you think we should mind our own business in the Ukraine?

Yes I'm with you there mate but you also said this below*.

*Accepting that symbols and gestures mean different things to different people and that respecting people's right to stand up for a cause that we all should really be behind.

It's clear that, by that criteria, we can't dismiss the Russian lad's right to stand up for a cause he believes in. There will be those who agree with him and those who disagree justc as there are with BLM or the kneeling campaign or whatever.



This is my point though. The Russian lad may not be 'actively going out of his way to antagonise people and take a very controversial viewpoint'. He may be totally sincere and desperate to get his message across. If you watch the news you'll see that the Russian people are being told that Ukraine is a Nazi country that's killing Russians and threatening their country. We're being told the opposite and we have to believe we're being told the truth, I do but he's entitled to his opinion.


Of course I don't believe it, I was just giving an example of how, as you said, different people have different points of view and different values.


I'm sure the message is too vague and all inclusive to the point where it's become a general 'be decent with everyone' which I'm sure most people don't need to be told. I suspect some people don't appreciate being told this by football players who don't always live up to that message themselves.

I don't boo, would never boo and don't know anyone who does, so that's just guesswork on my part. If, however, the campaign is against all forms of discrimination then they don't all need to be mentioned or listed.



I don't have a clue tbh. Many people were marching under a BLM banner without being in any organisation, understanding what BLM UK was or knowing who was involved. This is part of the problem, BLM means different things to different people and not everyone understands the distinctions.

All forms of discrimination, including racism!Thanks for that

 

[Pepe]

Full of mouth breathers

 

[Bear Heed]

There's no evidence to suggest Aracely Henriquez was pregnant at the time. You need to stop reading Facebook memes and The Daily Mail.

You must be logged on to see external links

When an officer of the law executes someone on the street in the most powerful nation in the world it's going to (justifiably imo) cause shockwaves. It was a horrific crime and what George Floyd served his time for does not justify it in any way.

There's no evidence to suggest this was a racist murder as far as I'm aware.

He may just have been a sick bully and a rotten police officer.

You could argue that people are judging the police officer's actions based on the colour of his skin which would be racist.

 

[officerbill]

Ha ha ha.Nice one.You are showing your political agenda now

So let me clarify, you know me personally do yer ? So you go on a football public forum and make a wild assumption like that.Next youl be calling me a racist !! when infact my Mrs is a mixed race scouser !!. Dont go making assumptions when you dont know who or what your talking about....

 

[ClarenceBoddicker]

Everyone has a degree of racism in them tbh,

There's no evidence to suggest this was a racist murder as far as I'm aware.

He may just have been a sick bully and a rotten police officer.

You could argue that people are judging the police officer's actions based on the colour of his skin which would be racist.

Make your mind up.