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Booing prior to the kick off.

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RossTheNinja said:
Ok I'll start booing from home. I'll let you know in the match thread.

"but that still implies that they're either extremely thick or extremely ignorant to believe that the kneeling is in support of the Marxist Organisation." That's a different proposition than what you said this time. I honestly don't believe you are doing so intentionally, but you have moved the goal posts.

Is your claim that no-one is kneeling in support of
a. marxism
or
b. a marxist organisation (BLM)?
or
c. something else?

The middle part is either wilful ignorance, incompetence, or sympathy for BLM by the PL . BLM were around when the fake "hands up, don't shoot" narrative was about, and that was under Obama. A 30 second google search and this whole debate could've been avoided, or at least, ameliorated.
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Out of interest, what are your main issues with the works of Marx, would you say?

Also, on a scale of one to ten, how likely do you think it is that any of Marx's goals for society would be achieved by kneeling at football matches?
 
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Definitely Maybe said:
There's only confusion if you choose to be confused imo. Players have been kneeling for the best part of 2 years now and other than the first few weeks in June/July 2020 the message has always been 'kneeling to demonstrate against racism and all forms of discrimination'. The commentators are very keen to stress that every single game and frequently point out 'it isn't to support any political party or organisation'. The debate has been done to death and the Marxism argument blown out of the water. SAFC even released a statement stating players kneel against racism and all forms of discrimination. If people still choose to see it that way that is because of their own ignorance imo.

There are many valid arguments to say that the knee has ran it's course and should stop and I agree with them. But the mental gymnastics from some to justify booing a 5 second demonstration against racism and discrimination is staggering.
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TBF there's been a stream of posters, on this thread, saying the kneeling is simply 'an anti-racist protest' . So I'd say there's a fair bit of confusion and that's what I'm alluding to. And I'd say many of the general watching public still associate the kneeling with BLM. Someone, like yourself, who's obviously informed and passionate will take a greater interest.

As I've made absolutely clear I would never boo, support the aims of the protest and couldn't care less about the Marxism nonsense. What I object to is the way anyone expressing any views, that varies slightly from the obvious narrative, is declared a racist by posters who obviously just like shouting the word.

I'm with you and agree that it's time to end the kneeling. The message has become diluted and messy.
redflagflyinghigh said:
Out of interest, what are your main issues with the works of Marx, would you say?

Also, on a scale of one to ten, how likely do you think it is that any of Marx's goals for society would be achieved by kneeling at football matches?
Click to expand...

Personally I have no problem although I can see why some people do.

Whereas 'A Night at the Opera' was a classic there are others that were poor in comparison
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Bear Heed said:
TBF there's been a stream of posters, on this thread, saying the kneeling is simply 'an anti-racist protest' . So I'd say there's a fair bit of confusion and that's what I'm alluding to. And I'd say many of the general watching public still associate the kneeling with BLM. Someone, like yourself, who's obviously informed and passionate will take a greater interest.

As I've made absolutely clear I would never boo, support the aims of the protest and couldn't care less about the Marxism nonsense. What I object to is the way anyone expressing any views, that varies slightly from the obvious narrative, is declared a racist by posters who obviously just like shouting the word.

I'm with you and agree that it's time to end the kneeling. The message has become diluted and messy.


Personally I have no problem although I can see why some people do.

Whereas 'A Night at the Opera' was a classic there are others that were poor in comparison
You must be logged on to see media items
Click to expand...
The kneeling IS an anti racism gesture.
 
Kneeling as an anti racist gesture was around way before the political party in the USA started doing it. They probably also shake hands and wave hello, does that make shaking hands a political marxist gesture? Of course it doesn't
 
Skylon said:
How many times have the efl,premier league etc. said it is taking the knee against all types of discrimination though.Countless times.Over and over again ,they give the reason for taking the knee.Why is their confusion?It's not for BLM,it's taking the knee against all discrimination. Commentators mention it all the time.The knee was around before BLM.
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Skylon said:
The kneeling IS an anti racism gesture.
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Make your mind up :rolleyes:
 
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Whilst it is interesting to hear the various excuses members are coming up with for booing the knee, unfortunately a boo does not have to nuances to convey such reasons.
Basically it just sounds like you are being a racist gammon to all and sundry. It therefore reflects badly on our club.

Nobody cares if you agree with the knee or not, so just be quiet in future.
 
Wearson said:
Whilst it is interesting to hear the various excuses members are coming up with for booing the knee, unfortunately a boo does not have to nuances to convey such reasons.
Basically it just sounds like you are being a racist gammon to all and sundry. It therefore reflects badly on our club.

Nobody cares if you agree with the knee or not, so just be quiet in future.
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I don't think 'various members' are excusing themselves.

As far as I can see their giving opinions of why other people may be doing it.

And, sorry to say this but, agree or disagree, you can't tell people to shut up and keep their views/boos to themselves. In a democracy that's a form of discrimination in itself.
Skylon said:
Racism is a form of discrimination
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Of course it is, no one has said any different.

That doesn't make the kneeling an anti-racism gesture, that's only part of it.
 
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Wearson said:
Whilst it is interesting to hear the various excuses members are coming up with for booing the knee, unfortunately a boo does not have to nuances to convey such reasons.
Basically it just sounds like you are being a racist gammon to all and sundry. It therefore reflects badly on our club.

Nobody cares if you agree with the knee or not, so just be quiet in
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Y
Bear Heed said:
I don't think 'various members' are excusing themselves.

As far as I can see their giving opinions of why other people may be doing it.

And, sorry to say this but, agree or disagree, you can't tell people to shut up and keep their views/boos to themselves. In a democracy that's a form of discrimination in itself.


Of course it is, no one has said any different.

That doesn't make the kneeling an anti-racism gesture, that's only part of it.
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So it is an anti -racism gesture.Thanks for confirming that.You have lost the plot here,over something you don't claim to care about
 
Bear Heed said:
I don't think 'various members' are excusing themselves.

As far as I can see their giving opinions of why other people may be doing it.

And, sorry to say this but, agree or disagree, you can't tell people to shut up and keep their views/boos to themselves. In a democracy that's a form of discrimination in itself.
Click to expand...
I do think they are excusing themselves, trying to justify their actions which are not doing our club any good.
 
Bear Heed said:
TBF there's been a stream of posters, on this thread, saying the kneeling is simply 'an anti-racist protest' . So I'd say there's a fair bit of confusion and that's what I'm alluding to. And I'd say many of the general watching public still associate the kneeling with BLM. Someone, like yourself, who's obviously informed and passionate will take a greater interest.

As I've made absolutely clear I would never boo, support the aims of the protest and couldn't care less about the Marxism nonsense. What I object to is the way anyone expressing any views, that varies slightly from the obvious narrative, is declared a racist by posters who obviously just like shouting the word.

I'm with you and agree that it's time to end the kneeling. The message has become diluted and messy.


Personally I have no problem although I can see why some people do.

Whereas 'A Night at the Opera' was a classic there are others that were poor in comparison
You must be logged on to see media items
Click to expand...

It's about respect at the end of the day. I don't really care if anyone is 'against' the knee, you can make a hundred good arguments about its lack of impact and the all-round hypocrisy of football for supporting it. Accepting that symbols and gestures mean different things to different people and that respecting people's right to stand up for a cause that we all should really be behind, even if you disagree with how they represent themselves are not particularly difficult concepts to grasp. It's more about making a contribution to living in a decent and a respectful society than anything else. You might not be a racist, but you are definitely being publicly disrespectful towards a broad anti-racism gesture.

I don't honestly believe that "many of the general public" still associate taking the knee with BLM the 'Marxist' organisation. BLM the organisation was more of an American thing than a UK thing - it certainly hasn't really been discussed much post Summer 2020. I think people who subscribe to the whole Marxism angle are probably quite deep down the rabbit hole anyway.
 
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Wearson said:
I do think they are excusing themselves, trying to justify their actions which are not doing our club any good.
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Yes but who are these members, on this thread, justifying their actions?

I think I've only seen one poster do that.
 
Seriously can we put this subject to bed. Its been bloody discussed to high heaven on numerous occasions on here, its only certain individuals who like to pro long this to suit their political agenda.
 
FulwellViaLeeds said:
It's about respect at the end of the day. I don't really care if anyone is 'against' the knee, you can make a hundred good arguments about its lack of impact and the all-round hypocrisy of football for supporting it. Accepting that symbols and gestures mean different things to different people and that respecting people's right to stand up for a cause that we all should really be behind, even if you disagree with how they represent themselves are not particularly difficult concepts to grasp.
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See that's where it gets tricky mate.

Let's just say that I'm a Russian born Sunderland local who watches 'Putin TV' and sincerely believes the rhetoric that Ukraine is the aggressor and that Russian people are being persecuted. So as a gesture of solidarity I rock up at the SOL, put up a huge Russian flag and sing pro-Putin songs.

Going by your logic everyone should respect my feelings and allow me to carry on. In reality there'd be hell on, flag would be taken down, possible ejection from the ground and a dozen threads on here within hours.

FulwellViaLeeds said:
It's more about making a contribution to living in a decent and a respectful society than anything else. You might not be a racist, but you are definitely being publicly disrespectful towards a broad anti-racism gesture.
Click to expand...
It's not an anti-racist gesture, it's against all kinds of injustice and intolerance according to the EFL. As they don't say what that includes it's possible there are aspects I don't agree with. I don't want trans-men playing women's football teams for example.
FulwellViaLeeds said:
I don't honestly believe that "many of the general public" still associate taking the knee with BLM the 'Marxist' organisation. BLM the organisation was more of an American thing than a UK thing - it certainly hasn't really been discussed much post Summer 2020. I think people who subscribe to the whole Marxism angle are probably quite deep down the rabbit hole anyway.
Click to expand...

On that we have to disagree. There was an absolute explosion of BLM exposure on sports channels, news channels and the media in general. The 6pm and 10pm news had it on every night at one point.

The distancing, by the EFL etc, existed but was barely noticeable.
 
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