Booing prior to the kick off.

[Deleted member 7993]

Was it BLM the movement, or BLM the organisation?

Unclear, that is why the Premier League ditched the logo, with the clever statement which covered both camps..... "On 30 June,

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it did "not endorse any political organisation or movement, nor support any group that calls for violence or condones illegal activity." They then switched to their "No Room for Racism" campaign, but kept the knee which was still associated with BLM. ..... hence the confusion.

But black lives do matter.Whats the matter with having that on your top?

Because people may not know which you support.... the movement or the organisation

 

[Bear Heed]

Because people may not know which you support.... the movement or the organisation

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[Get Into Em]

Unclear, that is why the Premier League ditched the logo, with the clever statement which covered both camps..... "On 30 June,

You must be logged on to see external links

it did "not endorse any political organisation or movement, nor support any group that calls for violence or condones illegal activity." They then switched to their "No Room for Racism" campaign, but kept the knee which was still associated with BLM. ..... hence the confusion.

Because people may not know which you support.... the movement or the organisation

This is just pure ignorance.

Found anyone within football that is in support of the organisation rather than the anti-racism campaign? Name any one person?

Surely if this is why you're opposed to taking the knee you'll be able to name just 1 of the thousands of footballers that have taken the knee?

Your argument has descended into being that these multi-millionaire footballers are Marxists ffs. Just have a think about the conclusion you've came to as to why you're against an anti-racism campaign.

 

[RossTheNinja]

Although I don't hate PETA, I don't agree with absolutely every message they send out or endorse, yet I know for a fact that if players did a stance for a mere 10 seconds against animal abuse I wouldn't boo it. Why would I? It'd be pathetic. Would you? Do you boo the mere 10 seconds of kneeling in support of anti-racism?



I appreciate that the BLM Marxist organisation exists mate. Read on from the first sentence in my original post. There's multiple organisations (in this case: an anti-racism movement) that unfortunately for them share the same as awful organisations (in this case: the Marxist organisation). I used ISIS as an example.

Even when this was addressed and the branding was changed, people still boo? Why?

It's not as if BLM was a popular, well known marxist organisation before the same message was used in the protests. Was everyone protesting meant to be aware of the Marxist organisation before saying the three words of "black lives matter"? And for anyone saying these three words (or practicing an anti-racism movement with these 3 words as the message), does that instantly mean they're in support of the Marxist organisation? It doesn't, let's be honest.

Maybe it does link back to @RossTheNinja's point that bad tastes stay, so even after changing the name of the 'branding' those fans booing are still unhappy, but that still implies that they're either extremely thick or extremely ignorant to believe that the kneeling is in support of the Marxist Organisation.

I feel like the majority of what I've put is what I've already said, so it might be worth you re-reading the rest of my post you replied to.



Read above and the rest of my post that you replied to. Do you believe that the entire England national team are in support of the Marxist organisation despite being some of the wealthiest young men in the country? Are the entire Gillingham squad massive undercover Marxists?

I dunno if it was intentional, but I think that was a Motte and Bailey. A much closer comparison would be if the players wore PETA shirts for weeks, had PETA flags in the stands, and did some gesture. Then, after a few weeks, they stopped wearing the PETA shirts, but kept doing the gesture, and claimed that the gesture wasn't about PETA, it was about protecting animals all along. Well, too late, the die is cast. Or at least it is if you hate PETA. If you don't have a clue about PETA, you wouldn't see an issue.

If they wanted to go back to stand up to racism, show racism the red card, or something like that, I doubt you'd have much resistance at all. Or just label the people who disagree thick, cos that'll definitely get them on your side.

 

[Skylon]

Unclear, that is why the Premier League ditched the logo, with the clever statement which covered both camps..... "On 30 June,

You must be logged on to see external links

it did "not endorse any political organisation or movement, nor support any group that calls for violence or condones illegal activity." They then switched to their "No Room for Racism" campaign, but kept the knee which was still associated with BLM. ..... hence the confusion.

Because people may not know which you support.... the movement or the organisation

How many times have the efl,premier league etc. said it is taking the knee against all types of discrimination though.Countless times.Over and over again ,they give the reason for taking the knee.Why is their confusion?It's not for BLM,it's taking the knee against all discrimination. Commentators mention it all the time.The knee was around before BLM.

 

[Get Into Em]

I dunno if it was intentional, but I think that was a Motte and Bailey. A much closer comparison would be if the players wore PETA shirts for weeks, had PETA flags in the stands, and did some gesture. Then, after a few weeks, they stopped wearing the PETA shirts, but kept doing the gesture, and claimed that the gesture wasn't about PETA, it was about protecting animals all along. Well, too late, the die is cast. Or at least it is if you hate PETA. If you don't have a clue about PETA, you wouldn't see an issue.

If they wanted to go back to stand up to racism, show racism the red card, or something like that, I doubt you'd have much resistance at all. Or just label the people who disagree thick, cos that'll definitely get them on your side.

Not sure if you think I labeled the people against kneeling as thick - I haven't. I labeled anyone that would boo for the reason of it being in support of Marxism as extremely thick OR ignorant - as it's clearly not. Don't you agree?

As for the PETA one - it's definitely gave me food for thought. Food pun unintentional.

Didn't the PL etc. disassociate themselves upon discovery of the links to the organisation though, and like I said before did anyone know of it previous to the protests? Could argue that they could have looked into it, but it took Trump's best man (Rudi Giuliani) to discover the links.

Like I say though, have definitely made me step back and have a think, appreciate it.

 

[Skylon]

I dunno if it was intentional, but I think that was a Motte and Bailey. A much closer comparison would be if the players wore PETA shirts for weeks, had PETA flags in the stands, and did some gesture. Then, after a few weeks, they stopped wearing the PETA shirts, but kept doing the gesture, and claimed that the gesture wasn't about PETA, it was about protecting animals all along. Well, too late, the die is cast. Or at least it is if you hate PETA. If you don't have a clue about PETA, you wouldn't see an issue.

If they wanted to go back to stand up to racism, show racism the red card, or something like that, I doubt you'd have much resistance at all. Or just label the people who disagree thick, cos that'll definitely get them on your side.

The taking knee was around before blm started.Aaaaah,the show racism the red card thing.That nice little initiative,that people push to one side.Whether you like it or not,the knee gesture has definitely opened up the race debate in this country,by being more in your face.Sometimes that is whats needed.I think it is great,and so do my kids,and a lot of my kids's mates.Hopefully the next generation of kids might be a lot more tolerant because of it

 

[Deleted member 7993]

This is just pure ignorance.

Found anyone within football that is in support of the organisation rather than the anti-racism campaign? Name any one person?

Surely if this is why you're opposed to taking the knee you'll be able to name just 1 of the thousands of footballers that have taken the knee?

Your argument has descended into being that these multi-millionaire footballers are Marxists ffs. Just have a think about the conclusion you've came to as to why you're against an anti-racism campaign.

Seems like you are a bit wound up there bud. Look at the facts I've presented from the PL league itself. In a nutshell the PL firstly embraced the BLM, and the knee. Then ditched BLM because in their own words they "did not want to endorse any political organisation or movement" and instead initiated their own "No room for racism" campaign, but still endorsed the knee..... end of. Wherever have I stated that I've even looked for any footballer who is in support of the BLM organisation? The PL ditched their association with BLM, I had no control over that.Your mind is playing tricks mate, wherever in any posts have I mentioned marxist footballers? The only thing I've done is answer a question you yourself posed. I don't have an "argument" I'm presenting you with facts and quotes. You on the other hand are just spouting innacurate assumptions.

 

[mackemlegend]

I hate it when hate wins

 

[dangermows]

Boooooooooo

 

[Get Into Em]

Seems like you are a bit wound up there bud. Look at the facts I've presented from the PL league itself. In a nutshell the PL firstly embraced the BLM, and the knee. Then ditched BLM because in their own words they "did not want to endorse any political organisation or movement" and instead initiated their own "No room for racism" campaign, but still endorsed the knee..... end of. Wherever have I stated that I've even looked for any footballer who is in support of the BLM organisation? The PL ditched their association with BLM, I had no control over that.Your mind is playing tricks mate, wherever in any posts have I mentioned marxist footballers? The only thing I've done is answer a question you yourself posed. I don't have an "argument" I'm presenting you with facts and quotes. You on the other hand are just spouting innacurate assumptions.

"Whats wrong with having [Black Lives Matter] on your top?"
"Because people may not know which you support.... the movement or the organisation"

You seem to suggest that people don't know what the footballers are in support of. It's clear as day what the footballers are in support of. How could anyone believe they are in support of Marxism? None of them have said they are. I've offered you a chance to show me an example of one that has. Understandably, I should have made it more clear what part of your post I was replying to like.

As I've replied to you many times before: I know, and understand that the PL once endorced having BLM on the shirt. They then took it off. Brilliant. However, having Black Lives Matter on a shirt in no way makes it instantly associated with the organisation. The same way in which a company called 'ISIS' (still using this as an example) having their name on a billboard would have no association with the terrorist organisation.

Kneeling, or "taking the knee", as also pointed out originated almost half a decade before the George Floyd BLM protests. Absolutely nothing to do with Black Lives Matter, No Room for Racism or any other PL based anti-racism campaign.

"originated by American football player Colin Kaepernick on September 1, 2016, in protest against the lack of attention given to the issues of racial inequality and police brutality in the United States."

I'm not wound up, read my previous post. The only point in posting on this thread is to understand other view points and possibly change my mind. Granted, probably a rarity for people on here.

 

[Deleted member 7993]

How many times have the efl,premier league etc. said it is taking the knee against all types of discrimination though.Countless times.Over and over again ,they give the reason for taking the knee.Why is their confusion?It's not for BLM,it's taking the knee against all discrimination. Commentators mention it all the time.The knee was around before BLM.

Whenever did English footballers "en masse" take the knee before BLM rose to prominence?.... Never. It is an irrefutable fact that the PL and England National Team embraced BLM, with the players wearing the logos and taking the knee. The knee will always be associated with BLM. The PL realised that they had made a massive fuck up in supporting BLM which was now increasingly seen as having links to violence and politics. They ditched BLM, but still endorsed the knee. They then started the "re-education" No No.... right lads listen,,,, we have nowt to do with BLM now, tell them all we're kneeling against all forms of racism and discrimination that'l keep everyone happy, keep telling them, broadcast it at every opportunity ... we'll get away with our cock up.

"Whats wrong with having [Black Lives Matter] on your top?"
"Because people may not know which you support.... the movement or the organisation"

You seem to suggest that people don't know what the footballers are in support of. It's clear as day what the footballers are in support of. How could anyone believe they are in support of Marxism? None of them have said they are. I've offered you a chance to show me an example of one that has. Understandably, I should have made it more clear what part of your post I was replying to like.

As I've replied to you many times before: I know, and understand that the PL once endorced having BLM on the shirt. They then took it off. Brilliant. However, having Black Lives Matter on a shirt in no way makes it instantly associated with the organisation. The same way in which a company called 'ISIS' (still using this as an example) having their name on a billboard would have no association with the terrorist organisation.

Kneeling, or "taking the knee", as also pointed out originated almost half a decade before the George Floyd BLM protests. Absolutely nothing to do with Black Lives Matter, No Room for Racism or any other PL based anti-racism campaign.

"originated by American football player Colin Kaepernick on September 1, 2016, in protest against the lack of attention given to the issues of racial inequality and police brutality in the United States."

I'm not wound up, read my previous post. The only point in posting on this thread is to understand other view points and possibly change my mind. Granted, probably a rarity for people on here.

I was replying to Skylon not you. When he asked me "what's the matter with having BLM on your top", I took it he was referring to me, or people in general not particularly footballers. In fact it was Skylon who first raised the question of whether the BLM on the players shirts was for the organisation or the movement, and when he pointed that out, I figured it was maybe not a good idea for me, or anyone in general to don a BLM top in case people could take offence to it either way, Again you are summising, and once again I re-iterate nowhere ever in any posts anywhere have I accused players of being marxist. I have offered only reasons as to why some people may be against the knee. You are making shit up ... are you Russian ?

 

[Safc98]

Although I don't hate PETA, I don't agree with absolutely every message they send out or endorse, yet I know for a fact that if players did a stance for a mere 10 seconds against animal abuse I wouldn't boo it. Why would I? It'd be pathetic. Would you? Do you boo the mere 10 seconds of kneeling in support of anti-racism?



I appreciate that the BLM Marxist organisation exists mate. Read on from the first sentence in my original post. There's multiple organisations (in this case: an anti-racism movement) that unfortunately for them share the same as awful organisations (in this case: the Marxist organisation). I used ISIS as an example.

Even when this was addressed and the branding was changed, people still boo? Why?

It's not as if BLM was a popular, well known marxist organisation before the same message was used in the protests. Was everyone protesting meant to be aware of the Marxist organisation before saying the three words of "black lives matter"? And for anyone saying these three words (or practicing an anti-racism movement with these 3 words as the message), does that instantly mean they're in support of the Marxist organisation? It doesn't, let's be honest.

Maybe it does link back to @RossTheNinja's point that bad tastes stay, so even after changing the name of the 'branding' those fans booing are still unhappy, but that still implies that they're either extremely thick or extremely ignorant to believe that the kneeling is in


Read above and the rest of my post that you replied to. Do you believe that the entire England national team are in support of the Marxist organisation despite being some of the wealthiest young men in the country? Are the entire Gillingham squad massive undercover Marxists?

Although I don't hate PETA, I don't agree with absolutely every message they send out or endorse, yet I know for a fact that if players did a stance for a mere 10 seconds against animal abuse I wouldn't boo it. Why would I? It'd be pathetic. Would you? Do you boo the mere 10 seconds of kneeling in support of anti-racism?



I appreciate that the BLM Marxist organisation exists mate. Read on from the first sentence in my original post. There's multiple organisations (in this case: an anti-racism movement) that unfortunately for them share the same as awful organisations (in this case: the Marxist organisation). I used ISIS as an example.

Even when this was addressed and the branding was changed, people still boo? Why?

It's not as if BLM was a popular, well known marxist organisation before the same message was used in the protests. Was everyone protesting meant to be aware of the Marxist organisation before saying the three words of "black lives matter"? And for anyone saying these three words (or practicing an anti-racism movement with these 3 words as the message), does that instantly mean they're in support of the Marxist organisation? It doesn't, let's be honest.

Maybe it does link back to @RossTheNinja's point that bad tastes stay, so even after changing the name of the 'branding' those fans booing are still unhappy, but that still implies that they're either extremely thick or extremely ignorant to believe that the kneeling is in support of the Marxist Organisation.

I feel like the majority of what I've put is what I've already said, so it might be worth you re-reading the rest of my post you replied to.



Read above and the rest of my post that you replied to. Do you believe that the entire England national team are in support of the Marxist organisation despite being some of the wealthiest young men in the country? Are the entire Gillingham squad massive undercover Marxists?

No. But they’re at the whim of what their sponsors and media want. You truly believe that this is player driven? Have a look at Brentford, didn’t do it in the championship but pressured into it in the Premier League because of how it looks on TV being beamed around the world

 

[Skylon]

No. But they’re at the whim of what their sponsors and media want. You truly believe that this is player driven? Have a look at Brentford, didn’t do it in the championship but pressured into it in the Premier League because of how it looks on TV being beamed around the world

How do you know this?

Whenever did English footballers "en masse" take the knee before BLM rose to prominence?.... Never. It is an irrefutable fact that the PL and England National Team embraced BLM, with the players wearing the logos and taking the knee. The knee will always be associated with BLM. The PL realised that they had made a massive fuck up in supporting BLM which was now increasingly seen as having links to violence and politics. They ditched BLM, but still endorsed the knee. They then started the "re-education" No No.... right lads listen,,,, we have nowt to do with BLM now, tell them all we're kneeling against all forms of racism and discrimination that'l keep everyone happy, keep telling them, broadcast it at every opportunity ... we'll get away with our cock up.

I was replying to Skylon not you. When he asked me "what's the matter with having BLM on your top", I took it he was referring to me, or people in general not particularly footballers. In fact it was Skylon who first raised the question of whether the BLM on the players shirts was for the organisation or the movement, and when he pointed that out, I figured it was maybe not a good idea for me, or anyone in general to don a BLM top in case people could take offence to it either way, Again you are summising, and once again I re-iterate nowhere ever in any posts anywhere have I accused players of being marxist. I have offered only reasons as to why some people may be against the knee. You are making shit up ... are you Russian ?

So you are admitting it is nothing to do with BLM now.And it is very clear it is nothing to do with BLM now.So why are people booing?

Whenever did English footballers "en masse" take the knee before BLM rose to prominence?.... Never. It is an irrefutable fact that the PL and England National Team embraced BLM, with the players wearing the logos and taking the knee. The knee will always be associated with BLM. The PL realised that they had made a massive fuck up in supporting BLM which was now increasingly seen as having links to violence and politics. They ditched BLM, but still endorsed the knee. They then started the "re-education" No No.... right lads listen,,,, we have nowt to do with BLM now, tell them all we're kneeling against all forms of racism and discrimination that'l keep everyone happy, keep telling them, broadcast it at every opportunity ... we'll get away with our cock up.

I was replying to Skylon not you. When he asked me "what's the matter with having BLM on your top", I took it he was referring to me, or people in general not particularly footballers. In fact it was Skylon who first raised the question of whether the BLM on the players shirts was for the organisation or the movement, and when he pointed that out, I figured it was maybe not a good idea for me, or anyone in general to don a BLM top in case people could take offence to it either way, Again you are summising, and once again I re-iterate nowhere ever in any posts anywhere have I accused players of being marxist. I have offered only reasons as to why some people may be against the knee. You are making shit up ... are you Russian ?

It is also irrefutable that the taking the knee was around before George floyd

 

[Bear Heed]

Bear Heed said:
That's it, just ignore the bits that don't suit your argument

“We stand firmly against all forms of prejudice.

What you on about man?Give it up.You are tying yourself in knots,over something you claim to not be bothered about anyway.Its hilarious

How many times have the efl,premier league etc. said it is taking the knee against all types of discrimination though.Countless times.Over and over again ,they give the reason for taking the knee.Why is their confusion?It's not for BLM,it's taking the knee against all discrimination. Commentators mention it all the time.The knee was around before BLM.

So, you say I'm wrong to say the protest is against all discrimination then, the next day, you admit it is. Then you claim other people are confused, seriously man get a grip

I've never seen anyone, on a thread, so cringingly desperate to have the last word.

Sadly you just keep contradicting yourself and claiming you actually have mates who are racists who boo the kneeling. Then you keep asking, on here over and over, why people are booing, ask your mates ffs.

 

[Skylon]

Bear Heed said:
That's it, just ignore the bits that don't suit your argument

“We stand firmly against all forms of prejudice.




So, you say I'm wrong to say the protest is against all discrimination then, the next day, you admit it is. Then you claim other people are confused, seriously man get a grip

I've never seen anyone, on a thread, so cringingly desperate to have the last word.

Sadly you just keep contradicting yourself and claiming you actually have mates who are racists who boo the kneeling. Then you keep asking, on here over and over, why people are booing, ask your mates ffs.

Racism is a form of discrimination

Racism is a form of discrimination

Who keeps asking why are people booing?

Racism is a form of discrimination

Who keeps asking why are people booing?

Racism is a form of discrimination

Who keeps asking why are people booing?

You seem a tad obsessed with me

Bear Heed said:
That's it, just ignore the bits that don't suit your argument

“We stand firmly against all forms of prejudice.




So, you say I'm wrong to say the protest is against all discrimination then, the next day, you admit it is. Then you claim other people are confused, seriously man get a grip

I've never seen anyone, on a thread, so cringingly desperate to have the last word.

Sadly you just keep contradicting yourself and claiming you actually have mates who are racists who boo the kneeling. Then you keep asking, on here over and over, why people are booing, ask your mates ffs.

I said I

Bear Heed said:
That's it, just ignore the bits that don't suit your argument

“We stand firmly against all forms of prejudice.




So, you say I'm wrong to say the protest is against all discrimination then, the next day, you admit it is. Then you claim other people are confused, seriously man get a grip

I've never seen anyone, on a thread, so cringingly desperate to have the last word.

Sadly you just keep contradicting yourself and claiming you actually have mates who are racists who boo the kneeling. Then you keep asking, on here over and over, why people are booing, ask your mates ffs.

Who said I have mates who boo the knee?I said I know people who boo the knee.Come on,keep up

 

[Bear Heed]

Racism is a form of discrimination

Who keeps asking why are people booing?


You seem a tad obsessed with me

The clip of this ^^^^

 

[Skylon]

The clip of this ^^^^

Racism is a form of discrimination

 

[sinner]

The clip of this ^^^^

You two fannies seem obsessed with having last word. Heard some shite in my time but ..

.. Bear Heed wins the award. Hard luck Sky, but too much sense hidden in the nonsense. Bear just spouts shit.

Let it go boys

 

[chunkyshanhawk53]

Has anyone admitted to booing yet? And if so, outlined why?