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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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The Great Soprendo said:
Russia doesn't meet the criteria for membership of EU or NATO - starting with its (lack of) democracy.
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Exactly - so you can tie in removal of sanctions as it meets various criteria. Putin won’t of course but he can paint it as a massive win for him - he got the west to guarantee Russian security against the nazi Ukraine. We continue to fuck his economy unless he comes back into the fold
 
SYB_DC said:
Pretty simple: Sweden would have allies rushing to its aid because it’s in the EU and an attack on one EU country is an attack on all.

Interesting.
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I know that, I’m posing the question ‘do people seriously think that the risk of nuclear war is any different in the two scenarios?‘
Having EU or NATO membership doesn’t mean Putin won’t retaliate with nukes.
 
I liked the Sting video from a few posts back. I saw these guys back in 2019 when Peter Garrett said at the start of the song that it was more relevant than ever.
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Also a live version from a few days ago when he has a few choice words about Putin and Ukraine.
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Right so Poland should annex Kyiv. Send in ground troops to free them from "the Nazis" and then the first time Russia attacks a polish soldier Nato fucks off Putin.

A tad simplistic i know. But no more ridiculous than some of the arguments on this thread.

Unfortunately it isnt that easy and painful as it is the measured and considered course of action is
a) sanction ratcheting up the pressure if/where we can and
b) Support the brilliant and brave Ukrainians with as much modern armament and logistical support as possible.

And thats an uncomfortable truth unless/until things change.
 
Morse said:
It’s weird.

On the one hand people are saying no European leaders want to get involved with no fly zones, military assistance for Ukraine etc because war with Russia could lead to nuclear war.

Then they’re saying that if Sweden was invaded, everybody would pile in - no mention of the potential MAD that could result.

So basically, helping Ukraine militarily is unthinkable because of nukes, but helping Sweden - no bother at all, everyone piles in…

If we’re scared of Putin using nukes, then we can’t ever take him on, can we? He can do what the hell he likes. It doesn’t make a difference whether an invaded country is in NATO, the EU or any other mutual defence organisation, we can’t fight them because of nukes.

Absolutely mental.
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At some point the line has to be crossed , regardless of consequences, if any nato nation is invaded it’s all out war

With Ukraine we should be doing a lot more mind , both Europe and America
 
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Morse said:
I know that, I’m posing the question ‘do people seriously think that the risk of nuclear war is any different in the two scenarios?‘
Having EU or NATO membership doesn’t mean Putin won’t retaliate with nukes.
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It materially changes the calculus. Putin basically views Ukraine as part of Russia, or something akin to it. Intervening there is pretty close to an invasion of Russia in his mind. Not so for Sweden.

The more interesting cases are Finland and the Baltic states.
 
Frijj said:
That’s insane. There is no way in hell Putin should be rewarded for this.
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They are terms what you expect if you've been defeated in war and unconditionally surrendered.

Appointing Russian friendly Boiko as PM as well in a democratic country, fuck off.
 
OK, serious question for those knowledgeable on political and military matters.

What would be the ramifications of the west ‘liberating’ Belarus and installing democracy?
 
wisemensaysteve said:
He takes some of your garden, you spend the next 12 months with your family, he then comes back and takes the rest of your garden, a few months later he takes over your house, he has to be stopped before he gets that far, the best option is he has an accident or we starve him out.
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“An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile—hoping it will eat him last.”

Winston Churchill
 
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