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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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Lord Alfred said:
Not at all mate. We CAN bring Russia to the brink of defaulting on debt and impoverishment but by then they'll have bombed Ukraine back to the dark ages. We can't confront them in Ukraine so it's either prolong the agony or try to find a diplomatic way out where no-one gets everything they want but they all get something they can live with.
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The comments of a rationally thinking adult who knows massive compromise by Ukrainian is needed for them to come out of this alive .
 

Lord Alfred said:
You're advocating no fly zones and NATO going into Ukraine to confront them. There's a good reason why NO Western leader is advocating either measure.
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Because they are scared of nukes, incorrectly in my view. No point arguing as neither of us will change stance so let us agree to disagree.
 
Gillythedilf said:
The comments of a rationally thinking adult who knows massive compromise by Ukrainian is needed for them to come out of this alive .
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Way to be patronising.

What if they would rather fight for freedom or die trying?

You have ordinary people with office jobs etc taking up guns against the invaders to fight for their knowing they may be bombed at any moment. I don’t think compromising is what they want to do.
Lord Alfred said:
There's sound logic behind that stance marra.
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If you think he will actually use them. As has been said on hundreds of other pages, plenty of sound logic as to why he will never use them. We disagree, so let’s leave it and stop disrupting the thread.
 
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UpTheDuff said:
Way to be patronising.

What if they would rather fight for freedom or die trying?

You have ordinary people with office taking up guns against the invaders to fight for their knowing they may be bombed at any moment. I don’t think compromising is what they want to do.
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Well, um, you're describing exactly what they're doing, and they're doing so with weapons directly supplied by the West and massive behind-the-scenes intel assistance. There really isn't much more the West can do without pretty directly starting a war with Russia.
 
UpTheDuff said:
Way to be patronising.

What if they would rather fight for freedom or die trying?

You have ordinary people with office taking up guns against the invaders to fight for their knowing they may be bombed at any moment. I don’t think compromising is what they want to do.
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You're right, they don't want to compromise AT THE MOMENT. That stance may change after months of bombardment and no food or utilities.
 
SYB_DC said:
I hate to sound this blase, but why not? We've allowed that plenty of times before, including Stalin overrunning half of Europe.

Look, there's "it's hard to swallow" and there's "can't." This one is hard to swallow, but it's not a "can't."
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That’s fine, the US don’t have to get involved if they don’t want to. It’s all a very long way from America.

However, Ukraine is approximately 950 miles from the U.K. It’s a European country that’s under attack and suffering Russian war crimes, and Putin has threatened to nuke Finland and Sweden.

While I’m not trying to directly make a comparison with Hitler, it’s hard to ignore the similarities.
When he’s managed to negotiate with Ukraine, which will undoubtedly mean he stops the killing if the Ukrainians give up various freedoms, then he’ll see that as a victory and move on to his next targets.

Belarus are already pro-Russian, so he’ll probably go after Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, Moldova, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia and so on.

He might even decide Finland and Sweden are a priority before they have a chance to join NATO…
 
SYB_DC said:
Well, um, you're describing exactly what they're doing, and they're doing so with weapons directly supplied by the West and massive behind-the-scenes intel assistance. There really isn't much more the West can do without pretty directly starting a war with Russia.
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As you suggest, we can put our troops on the ground and our pilots in the air. I appreciate not everyone supports that but it is an option we have to defeat Putin.
 
SYB_DC said:
I don't think anyone's just letting Putin have his way. That was my fear a week ago. The question now is how much further you're willing to go. The economic sanctions are already going to turn Russia back to the USSR circa 1985 in a matter of months.
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That's why Ukraine needs to stay in the fight, let's see how the Russians who are now used to relatively comfortable lifestyles like it when Putin's actions have taken away their standard of living and killing their sons for what is an act of unprovoked aggression by neighbours who share a common language and history.
 
Morse said:
That’s fine, the US don’t have to get involved if they don’t want to. It’s all a very long way from America.

However, Ukraine is approximately 950 miles from the U.K. It’s a European country that’s under attack and suffering Russian war crimes, and Putin has threatened to nuke Finland and Sweden.

While I’m not trying to directly make a comparison with Hitler, it’s hard to ignore the similarities.
When he’s managed to negotiate with Ukraine, which will undoubtedly mean he stops the killing if the Ukrainians give up various freedoms, then he’ll see that as a victory and move on to his next targets.

Belarus are already pro-Russian, so he’ll probably go after Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, Moldova, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia and so on.

He might even decide Finland and Sweden are a priority before they have a chance to join NATO…
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Aside from Moldova, Georgia (which he already did go after), Azerbaijan, and Armenia, there's a pretty big difference: those places are either in the EU or NATO, both of which have collective security provisions.
 
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We must not give into Russian demands. Ukraine must set the terms of any ceasefire. Clearly the Russians are looking at a “get out” now. We must maintain the pressure on them until Putin is removed by his own side.

Previously I was all for giving Putin a token win to save bloodshed, but clearly the madman can’t be believed to keep his word. He needs to be eliminated before a stable peace can commence
 
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Lord Alfred said:
You'd imagine that eventually the supply lines will be cut off and most of the Ukrainian Fighters encircled in cities.
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Hopefully that is actually beyond the Russian forces - not easy to surround a city like Kyiv, given the resistance being shown and the resources hopefully available to the Ukrainians. I think they'll prefer to destroy it from afar, hoping for submission. I don't think it'll work though.
 
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