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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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safc9450 said:
That 's typical ,lose an arguement,lose a vote ,start calling names. Expected nothing else.
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I voted leave mate. Now realise I was conned and actually influenced by Putins social media algorithms. Wake up.

I’ll leave it there as I make a point of never arguing with idiots as you will drag me down to your level and then comprehensively beat me in an idiotic debate with your experience. 👍
 
APH said:
I think that's way off the mark. I've seen genuine requests for the thread to be split in two, one for political debate (back to the politics board) and one for news about war itself on the main board.
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There have been bickering between different political views

But only one side of the argument - Brexity right wingers - has demanded that certain political topics be removed from discussion

The people who want the thread split just don't want to hear things that make them uncomfortable.

Russias actions in Ukraine should make us look closely at the way in which Russia money, and pro-Putin actors have been allowed to infiltrate British politics. Brexit is part of that.

Daft to exlcude it from the debate just because it makes a Brexiters feel sad
 
MSC said:
I voted leave mate. Now realise I was conned and actually influenced by Putins social media algorithms. Wake up.

I’ll leave it there as I make a point of never arguing with idiots as you will drag me down to your level and then comprehensively beat me in an idiotic debate with your experience. 👍
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Priceless. Russian bot,who knew.🤣
 
MonkeyLove said:
I’m genuinely not convinced. I’m really not.

I think even if he went into a Baltic state NATO and the West would think carefully about a proportionate response.

Imagine a scenario where he goes into Estonia. Russian diplomatic and political back channels are briefing the West that even they can’t control him. He is 70, is hell bent on his legacy being a Russian leaning Eastern Europe and if you challenge him he will invoke his nuclear arsenal.

There is a military doctrine for this because it’s exactly what Nixon used with the Soviets to great effect and Putin has already started to demonstrate similar with his public statements.

Whether it’s true or not is another thing. But it’s a very effective strategy where he could portray basically being a Global Geo Political suicide bomber. Give me what I want or I take it all down.

Do you really think the sane, logical, rationale politicians in the West would genuinely sign off on a potential scorched Earth policy? Only if they knew catogorically he was bluffing or any order he made would be ignored by his own generals.

I can see personally a sliding scale of NATO response even if he goes into the Baltic’s because Putin has a very effective tool in his armour. That he might just be mad enough to do it. Massive call in that case for the West and I can’t see them unleashing the full power of NATO to avoid it depending on the circumstances
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Exactly. It’s been made clear that the West don’t care about Eastern Europe (“Ukraine isn’t our war”) so as you say, I think the same shoulder shrugging would apply to the Baltics even though they are in NATO.
 
bahtat said:
Surely concern should be for the poor buggers who can’t afford to get out not those who can and do
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Sorry to reply twice to the same comment, but I understand that the UK is asking any Ukrainians coming to the UK to show that they have sufficient funds that they can access private healthcare if they become sick and not use the NHS

This means that anyone wanting to come to the UK must have several thousand in cash in their bank accounts

Me and you might want to help the poor buggers who have no money, but HMG doesn't see things the same way
 
Lankester Merrin said:
There have been bickering between different political views

But only one side of the argument - Brexity right wingers - has demanded that certain political topics be removed from discussion

The people who want the thread split just don't want to hear things that make them uncomfortable.

Russias actions in Ukraine should make us look closely at the way in which Russia money, and pro-Putin actors have been allowed to infiltrate British politics. Brexit is part of that.

Daft to exlcude it from the debate just because it makes a Brexiters feel sad
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As a brexiteer it doesnt make me feel sad.
The U.K. has been leading way earlier than the EU on this .
Mouldy rocket launches ?
Still giving Russia billions a day in gas
Having to fly around Germany to deliver our equipment to the Ukraine
The list goes on
Let’s not play down our help so far
 
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Lankester Merrin said:
There is a concerted attempt, on this thread, and more generally, to exclude from discussion the links between Russian interference in the Brexit vote, Russian interference in Trumps election, Russian interference in Belarus and Russian interference in Ukraine

All of these are the actions of a hostile power - an enemy that is implacably opposed to our values - liberal democracy, tolerant inclusive diverse societies, well educated, and with free speech

Clearly they don't share those values
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Is it not simply the case that the Russian influence in Brexit has already been mentioned, repeatedly, on the thread? This is why the politics board was created tbh, too many loved having a soapbox to turn every thread, almost regardless of topic, into a political diatribe. In this case there's definitely a case for making the point about brexit etc but the point has been made, repeatedly. A lot of people want to come onto the thread to get updates about what is happening in Ukraine without it being page after page of stuff about the tories and brexit. The situation in Ukraine changes almost hourly, the issue of brexit and Russian involvement in government doesn't. There should be a separate thread, in the politics forum, for wider discussion of the points you're raising. They're perfectly valid, they warrant discussion, but many will feel this isn't the thread for it, or at least there isn't the need to constantly post about it without adding anything new on this thread. Crack on if that's what you want to do, until the mods start thread banning people it's fair game, but it's well over the top to accuse people of wanting to stifle debate when the majority are happy to have the discussion without it constantly derailing a thread that a lot are coming on with no interest in constant discussion of brexit and the tories.
 
APH said:
I think that's way off the mark. I've seen genuine requests for the thread to be split in two, one for political debate (back to the politics board) and one for news about war itself on the main board.
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The SMB has a certain anarchy to it and that’s part of its strength although it also throws up problems. I personally wish those posting pictures of Russian aircraft would do so under a warning (eg use the spoiler function) as I find it upsetting to casually watch someone die, even if they’re the baddies. However on balance it’s best not to over-police the thread (so I haven’t asked those who post these clips to do so nor is this post a request to them to do so) but let it be the mad, fascinating and informative hotchpotch that it is. We’ll all find stuff on here we don’t like, or don’t want to see. Posts should be removed if they breach forum rules. Other than that people can skim past stuff they don’t want to read or put people on ignore
 
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Lankester Merrin said:
Sorry to reply twice to the same comment, but I understand that the UK is asking any Ukrainians coming to the UK to show that they have sufficient funds that they can access private healthcare if they become sick and not use the NHS

This means that anyone wanting to come to the UK must have several thousand in cash in their bank accounts

Me and you might want to help the poor buggers who have no money, but HMG doesn't see things the same way
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A lot of immigrants don’t have access to public funds. I suppose it’s all part of the hostile environment stuff but I doubt it actually saves any real money and probably costs more because of the social consequences like crime. It’s always morally questionable but in this instance morally bankrupt.
 
Guinness Guzzler said:
Is it not simply the case that the Russian influence in Brexit has already been mentioned, repeatedly, on the thread? This is why the politics board was created tbh, too many loved having a soapbox to turn every thread, almost regardless of topic, into a political diatribe. In this case there's definitely a case for making the point about brexit etc but the point has been made, repeatedly. A lot of people want to come onto the thread to get updates about what is happening in Ukraine without it being page after page of stuff about the tories and brexit. The situation in Ukraine changes almost hourly, the issue of brexit and Russian involvement in government doesn't. There should be a separate thread, in the politics forum, for wider discussion of the points you're raising. They're perfectly valid, they warrant discussion, but many will feel this isn't the thread for it, or at least there isn't the need to constantly post about it without adding anything new on this thread. Crack on if that's what you want to do, until the mods start thread banning people it's fair game, but it's well over the top to accuse people of wanting to stifle debate when the majority are happy to have the discussion without it constantly derailing a thread that a lot are coming on with no interest in constant discussion of brexit and the tories.
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Spot on
 
Guinness Guzzler said:
Is it not simply the case that the Russian influence in Brexit has already been mentioned, repeatedly, on the thread? This is why the politics board was created tbh, too many loved having a soapbox to turn every thread, almost regardless of topic, into a political diatribe. In this case there's definitely a case for making the point about brexit etc but the point has been made, repeatedly. A lot of people want to come onto the thread to get updates about what is happening in Ukraine without it being page after page of stuff about the tories and brexit. The situation in Ukraine changes almost hourly, the issue of brexit and Russian involvement in government doesn't. There should be a separate thread, in the politics forum, for wider discussion of the points you're raising. They're perfectly valid, they warrant discussion, but many will feel this isn't the thread for it, or at least there isn't the need to constantly post about it without adding anything new on this thread. Crack on if that's what you want to do, until the mods start thread banning people it's fair game, but it's well over the top to accuse people of wanting to stifle debate when the majority are happy to have the discussion without it constantly derailing a thread that a lot are coming on with no interest in constant discussion of brexit and the tories.
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The people who are demanding that particular views be excluded form the thread are dominated by a small group of people who have Brexity politics. Oddly they don't have a problem with people spamming the thread with pro-Putin propaganda

Trying to talk about Russian interference in other countries affairs, but not talk about our own is silly

If you want a regular update on Ukraine without debate or comment the BBC and most newspapers can provide that for you
 
Scorer said:
A lot of immigrants don’t have access to public funds. I suppose it’s all part of the hostile environment stuff but I doubt it actually saves any real money and probably costs more because of the social consequences like crime. It’s always morally questionable but in this instance morally bankrupt.
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The UKs approach to asylum and refugees has been in the sewer for the last decade.

It has taken the Ukraine crisis for people to pay attention
 
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