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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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Bob Fleming said:
Someone on here did that too. Bizarre really. Why not just donate via one of the funds? How do you know the host is in danger? They might not even be in Ukraine. They could be very comfortable and quite rich while there's homeless desperate families need help.

If you donate via the disaster emergency fund the government will match your donation.
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Thought it was a good idea myself as long as you did proper research on the host/owner.

Anyway, The Saltgrass and Geek Retreat are collecting donations for displaced Ukrainians if anyone fancies helping out. There's a list of stuff they need on various social media. 👍
 

UpTheDuff said:
Not sure the rules and red lines are clear.

There is no rule stopping the UK or any country providing ground or military support to Ukraine.

And as for red lines, is the red line NATO membership or how western and rich a country is?

Sweden, Switzerland and Ireland are not in NATO. So to use a hypothetical example, if those three countries were being bombed to shreds by Putin would we still not cross the ‘red line’ and help non-NATO members.

If Dublin is under siege and being wiped off the map would posters here and the UK population be saying “they aren’t in NATO, it’s the rules and it’s not our fight”?
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It's not just about NATO is it, although that is the most obvious red line. Ukraine aren't even an EU country, unlike the others you've mentioned (Switzerland aside), attacking an EU member, I'd have thought that is an obvious red line to be fair. I'm not making the lines, but I think they're pretty well understood at this point in time.

And no, the rules aren't written, but they have been expressed by EU and US very clearly and directly. The help we are offering does not extend to direct military intervention and a no-fly zone at this stage. Whilst Zelenskiy would massively appreciate that being on the table, it couldn't have been made clearer that it isn't happening and why. Rightly or wrongly, we are not going to go militarily toe to toe with Russia over Ukraine.
 
Concordsafc said:
The best thing we could do is offer physical
Support, nothing stopping out government bods being at the border to help.
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The bloke in flip flops man just walking them away 😂
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Remarkable courage shown there. Assuming that situation didn’t escalate it’s also worth noting the Russian response is very restrained, that could easily have become a blood bath.
 
Lankester Merrin said:
The road to the war in Ukraine leads through a decade or more of Russian formal and informal warfare

You can try and pretend otherwise, but that doesn't stop it from being true

Why do some many right wingers want to stop this debate taking place?
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Because they’re scared that if people knew Russia influenced the brexit vote there’d be anoth referendum and the brexiters would lose badly.

They’d rather stick their fingers in their ears and pretend that Johnson is a good patriotic prime minister and they’ll defend him selling out the country to Russia as long as they can have blue passports and it “upsets the woke libtards”.
 
parttimer said:
It's not just about NATO is it, although that is the most obvious red line. Ukraine aren't even an EU country, unlike the others you've mentioned (Switzerland aside), attacking an EU member, I'd have thought that is an obvious red line to be fair. I'm not making the lines, but I think they're pretty well understood at this point in time.

And no, the rules aren't written, but they have been expressed by EU and US very clearly and directly. The help we are offering does not extend to direct military intervention and a no-fly zone at this stage. Whilst Zelenskiy would massively appreciate that being on the table, it couldn't have been made clearer that it isn't happening and why. Rightly or wrongly, we are not going to go militarily toe to toe with Russia over Ukraine.
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So essentially you are saying the red lines are just countries we think are worth saving.

For me, defending the free world is the red line. Putin has attacked the free world and I think the free world should collectively respond.

We will agree to disagree.
 
One thing that strikes me about those fleeing across the boarder, is that you can see these were people with very normal lives before this. They're dressed well, clean, look healthy and well fed. Their lives have completely changed in the space of a week. It's awful, especially for the bairns.
 
Botchie said:
One thing that strikes me about those fleeing across the boarder, is that you can see these were people with very normal lives before this. They're dressed well, clean, look healthy and well fed. Their lives have completely changed in the space of a week. It's awful, especially for the bairns.
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No different to most fleeing Syria. In fact, I would imagine given the wealth of Damascus etc that some Syrian refugees had higher skilled and higher paid jobs than any of the Ukrainians.
 
West_Winger said:
Because they’re scared that if people knew Russia influenced the brexit vote there’d be anoth referendum and the brexiters would lose badly.

They’d rather stick their fingers in their ears and pretend that Johnson is a good patriotic prime minister and they’ll defend him selling out the country to Russia as long as they can have blue passports and it “upsets the woke libtards”.
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Brexit isn't a political movement. It's an identity. Saying bad things about Brexit makes Brexiters feel angry because it damages their sense of identity.
 
UpTheDuff said:
So essentially you are saying the red lines are just countries we think are worth saving.

For me, defending the free world is the red line. Putin has attacked the free world and I think the free world should collectively respond.

We will agree to disagree.
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Whilst I do agree with this, and I don't want to get too political, would that not also mean going to war with China (over their treatment of the Uighurs) and no doubt many other countries? I really wish we could do more. To be honest their army (from the viewpoint of someone who doesn't even pretend to have knowledge of it) looks a bit of a joke. Nowt would please me more than us just driving them back with their tails between their legs if they could get their tanks out of the mud long enough to reverse. Its not realistic though, we'd constantly be at war and there'd probably have been world war 3 already. I'm not saying we should or shouldn't be doing more, couldn't be more of a layperson on this and got no clue so I'll leave it to those who understand geopolitics, but I can see that having a red line like that could be incredibly dangerous.
 
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safcforever said:
The same could be said for Putin only invading once Biden was in power. Like he was waiting for the right president.

Also once Markel had moved on, he seen his chance
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Right I see.

So why didn’t he pile his money into known Russophile and socialist Jeremy Corbyn and instead bought the Conservative party?

By your own logic that means he must see Corbyn as a bigger threat than Johnson.
Lankester Merrin said:
Brexit isn't a political movement. It's an identity. Saying bad things about Brexit makes Brexiters feel angry because it damages their sense of identity.
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Jingoism and xenophobia. It’s all they have.
 
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